Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:39:01 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 74 Message-ID: References: <855e571c6668207809e1eb67138de6af48d164fa@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 23:39:02 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="aa4b2c315dd69f41fbbb67fd39ea6537"; logging-data="3781540"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/L7rLr7Ehc7q6gXfpQGYq4" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:44GXv8W+J7DIFeqOXsiuPEHCL70= X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250221-6, 2/21/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 5402 On 2/21/2025 2:10 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2025-02-20 13:02:28 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 2/20/2025 2:28 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2025-02-20 04:08:05 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> On 2/16/2025 6:55 AM, joes wrote: >>>>> Am Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:25:12 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>> On 2/15/2025 4:03 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>>> Am Fri, 14 Feb 2025 17:29:45 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>> On 2/14/2025 6:54 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 13 Feb 2025 22:21:59 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>> On 2/13/2025 9:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/13/25 7:07 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/13/2025 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-02-13 04:21:34 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/2025 4:04 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-02-11 14:41:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course not. However, the fact that no reference to that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> article before or when HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That paper and its code are the only thing that I have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking about in this forum for several years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't matter when you don't say that you are talking about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that paper. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is irrelevant to the fact that the subject line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contains a false claim. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a truism and not one person on the face of the Earth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly show otherwise. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact that the claim on subject line is false is not a >>>>>>>>>>>>> truism. >>>>>>>>>>>>> In order to determine the claim is false one needs some >>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>> that is not obvious. >>>>>>>>>>>> When you try to show the steps attempting to show that it is >>>>>>>>>>>> false >>>>>>>>>>>> I will point out the error. >>>>>>>>>>> We havm, but you are too stupid to understand it. >>>>>>>>>>> Since when DD run, it halts, >>>>>>>>>> THAT IS A DIFFERENT INSTANCE >>>>>>>>> Why are you passing the wrong input to HHH? >>>>>>>> I will begin ignoring insincere replies. >>>>>>> Yes, please shut up. >>>>>>> But why are you not passing the same instance to HHH? >>>>>> The first instance of recursion is not exactly the same as subsequent >>>>>> instances of the exact same sequence of recursive invocations. >>>>>> It is the same with recursive simulations. When the second recursive >>>>>> invocation has been aborted the first one terminates normally >>>>>> misleading >>>>>> people into believing that the recursive chain terminates normally. >>>>> How interesting. Might this be due to a global variable that basically >>>>> toggles termination? >>>> >>>> Termination analyzers determine whether or not their input >>>> could possibly terminate normally. Nothing can toggle this. >>> >>> Wrong. Termination analyzers deremine whether a program can run forever. >> >> This would define simulating termination analyzers as impossible >> because every input that would otherwise run forever is aborted. > > It would be aborted by external causes but not by the program itself so > we can say that the program could run forever. > OK great we finally got mutual agreement on one point. Unless the C function HHH aborts its simulation of the C function DD this DD C function DOES NOT TERMINATE. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer