Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: dbush Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Every sufficiently competent C programmer knows --- Very Stupid Mistake and Liars Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 15:16:30 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 83 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 20:16:29 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8716d0356783f046d50792ab42ba1cd2"; logging-data="2908156"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/oVBxH8iA5lFA/k8pOY2Js" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:ISPtp02VTdmrtOscPYDH+vcV9TE= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 4640 On 3/11/2025 10:46 PM, olcott wrote: > On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, dbush wrote: >> On 3/11/2025 10:39 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 3/11/2025 9:37 PM, dbush wrote: >>>> On 3/11/2025 10:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:32 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:18 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:06 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:02 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2025 01:22, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its >>>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally >>>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly >>>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If it correctly simulates infinitely many steps, it doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> terminate. Look up "infinite". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But your task is to decide for /any/ program, not just DDD. >>>>>>>>>>> That, as you are so fond of saying, is 'stipulated', and you >>>>>>>>>>> can't get out of it. The whole point of the >>>>>>>>>>> Entscheidungsproblem is its universality. Ignore that, and >>>>>>>>>>> you have nothing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Given that his code has HHH(DD) returning 0, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> THESE ARE THE WORDS ANYONE THAT DODGES THESE >>>>>>>>> WORDS WILL BE TAKEN FOR A LIAR >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>    return; >>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its >>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally >>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly >>>>>>>>> simulated steps. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *You are simply lying that any input was ever changed* >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You did precisely that when you hypothesize different code for HHH. >>>>>> >>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed. >>>>> >>>>> *THIS IS WHAT MY ORIGINAL WORDS MEANT* >>>>> HHH is the infinite set of every possible C function >>>>> that correctly emulates N steps of its input where >>>>> N any finite positive integer. >>>>> >>>> >>>> In other words, you're changing the input. >>>> >>>> Changing the input is not allowed. >>> >>> It is an infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs having the >>> property that DDD[0] ... DDD[N] never halts. >>> >> >> In other words, you're not answering the question that a solution to >> the halting problem is required to answer: >> >> (,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly >> (,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed >> directly >> > > Yes I am yet you refuse to pay anywhere near close > enough attention to see how I already fully addressed this. > If you pay 100% perfect attention you might get it. > False. (,null) maps to 1 as per the above requirements, but your HHH maps (,null) to 0, therefore it fails to meet the requirements.