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From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Evolutionary creationism
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 17:39:42 -0500
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On 3/18/2025 12:15 PM, Martin Harran wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 08:44:23 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/18/2025 3:13 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 16:31:30 -0500, DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2025-03-17 8:31 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 08:42:49 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> [giant snip]
>>>
>>> Thank you for that. I had to stop snipping replies to Ron because if
>>> you snip anything at all, he claims you were running from his
>>> arguments and reposts the same stuff so you end up with a post 2 or 3
>>> times longer than it needs to be :(
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> QUOTE:
>>>>>> We believe that God acts purposefully in creation, just as he does in
>>>>>> our lives, and that he continues to actively uphold and sustain creation.
>>>>>> END QUOTE:
>>>>>
>>>>> And again, nothing there about God tweaking life the way Behe claims.
>>>>>     [another giant snip]
>>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, what do you think the phrase "he continues to actively
>>>> uphold and sustain creation." mean? I mean, in particular "continues"
>>>> and "actively".
>>>
>>> I see this as a background thing, not a direct process. I have 5
>>> grown-up children, all with children of their own. I continue to
>>> actively uphold and sustain them in whatever way they need but I do
>>> not *interfere* in their lives. If, for example, they make decisions
>>> that I don't agree with, I *might* offer an opinion if I think it will
>>> be welcome but the decision is entirely theirs and I fully accept and
>>> support whatever they do decide. The help and support I (and my wife)
>>> give them is on request, not pushed on them, though they know it is
>>> available when needed, and is given unconditionally.
>>>
>>> That's why I think the analogy of God as father is a particularly apt
>>> one.
>>>    
>>>
>> So you always understood what I was claiming, and just refused to
>> acknowledge that they were claiming supernatural miracles in order to
>> uphold and sustain creation.  You were just lying to yourself and lying
>> in your posts.
> 
> 
> If you can't understand the significance of "not *interfere* in their
> lives" then you really have lost the plot.
> 
The quotes were that they believe in active interference.  Your 
interpretation was bogus, and not what was indicated by the quotes 
presented.  You have understood that since being confronted with the 
quotes that you had to run from and start lying about.  You should have 
confronted the quotes about supernatural miracles directly instead of 
trying to lie your way out of it.  Invoking supernatural miracles is 
likely not denying interference.  It is a direct claim of devine 
interference in the creation.

Ron Okimoto