Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Totally ignoring invalid rebuttals ---PSR--- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 21:20:57 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 191 Message-ID: References: <27b6da57f540cd39d2918411d8c94789678e3f45@i2pn2.org> <24c66a3611456f6a6969dc132fd8a227b26cbcbd@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2025 04:20:58 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d75665534b29fc22cfbd837ef533f60b"; logging-data="474129"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/SrbxfeRnRymaOiC2oHlkM" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:k2PdAUsp6bHy2so+NNhRK7kDqTk= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250308-6, 3/8/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Bytes: 10571 On 3/8/2025 8:40 PM, dbush wrote: > On 3/8/2025 9:33 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 3/8/2025 7:52 PM, dbush wrote: >>> On 3/8/2025 8:19 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 3/8/2025 6:54 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>> On 3/8/2025 7:10 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 3/8/2025 5:54 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/8/2025 6:41 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/8/2025 5:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/8/25 9:09 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/8/2025 3:06 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-07 15:11:53 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2025 2:58 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 07.mrt.2025 om 03:31 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2025 6:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/25 3:18 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2025 3:20 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Wed, 05 Mar 2025 22:03:39 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 9:57 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 10:53 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 9:31 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 10:17 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 7:10 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you know that what you're working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on has nothing to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do with the halting problem, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words I WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY BULLSHIT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DEFLECTION. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have proven that you know these things pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well SO QUIT THE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SHIT! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want people to accept that HHH(DD) does in fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> report that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changing the code of HHH to an unconditional >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulator and running >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DD) will not halt. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its own "ret" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction and terminate normally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, replacing the code of HHH with an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconditional >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulator and subsequently running HHH(DD) does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halt, which you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previously agreed is correct: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2025 1:02 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   > On 2/22/2025 11:10 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >> On 2/22/2025 11:43 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >>> The first point is DD correctly simulated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >>> terminate normally by reaching its own "return" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >> In other words, if the code of HHH is replaced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >> unconditional simulator then it can be shown >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that DD is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >> non-halting and therefore HHH(DD)==0 is correct. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   > Wow finally someone that totally gets it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you disagree, explain why this is different. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In particular, give an example where X correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by Y is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different from replacing the code of Y with an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconditional simulator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and subsequently running Y(X). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I may not have enough time left to change the subject >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and endlessly go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through anything but the exact point. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You used to have enough time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is before the CAR T cell manufacturing process >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failed twice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which really means you need to abandon your fraudulent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> methods >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DD() >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because DD calls HHH(DD) in recursive emulation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> No such HHH exists. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The programmer of HHH has the following options when HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>> reaches the call to HHH: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) It just follows the call and starts simulating the code >>>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH. This might eventually lead to infinite recursion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, no correct simulation. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The code proves otherwise >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A program does not prove. In particular, it does not prove >>>>>>>>>>> that no >>>>>>>>>>> different program exists. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The source code 100% perfectly proves exactly what it >>>>>>>>>> actually does. Whenever anyone disagrees with what it >>>>>>>>>> actually does (as most people here have tried to get >>>>>>>>>> away with) they are necessarily incorrect. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Which is that HHH will look at memory not defined to be part of >>>>>>>>> its input, and thus HHH is not the pure function you have >>>>>>>>> agreed it must be. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> THIS IS A SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGY AGREE OR STFU !!! >>>>>>>> Replacing the code of HHH with an unconditional simulator and >>>>>>>> subsequently running HHH(DD)  cannot possibly >>>>>>>> reach its own final state and terminate normally. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Two people with masters degrees in computer science >>>>>>>> agreed. Gaslighting me on this makes you look like >>>>>>>> a complete nitwit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think everyone would agree, as you said, that if the code of >>>>>>> HHH is replaced with an unconditional simulator and HHH(DD) is >>>>>>> run, that it will not halt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So now what? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We add the mandatory required details to your simplistic >>>>>> idea such that additional elaboration from this full set >>>>>> of details: >>>>>> >>>>>> Replacing the code of HHH with an unconditional simulator and >>>>>> subsequently running HHH(DD) cannot possibly reach >>>>>> its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========