Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: dbush Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 15:17:49 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 20:17:48 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="03fe113b48149dc853aaf379e67b2ca8"; logging-data="2919616"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/sKSNfJt4+aENyjkGJC4cb" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:QgjuVuIBSn0SziIAe4+NfXdSZGk= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 4882 On 3/28/2025 3:05 PM, olcott wrote: > On 3/28/2025 1:07 PM, joes wrote: >> Am Fri, 28 Mar 2025 12:57:56 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>> On 3/27/2025 9:33 PM, dbush wrote: >>>> On 3/27/2025 10:10 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:24 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:21 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:09 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:07 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:38 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:34 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:12 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:11 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:02 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:27 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:50 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 27.mrt.2025 om 04:09 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not very interesting to know whether a simulator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reports that it is unable to reach the end of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of a program that halts in direct execution. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS NOT what HHH is reporting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly rejects DDD because DDD correctly emulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HHH cannot possibly reach its own final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, HHH is not a halt decider because it is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing the required mapping: >> >>>>>>>>>>> I corrected your error dozens of times and you ignore these >>>>>>>>>>> corrections and mindlessly repeat your error like a bot >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Which is what you've been doing for the last three years. >>>>>>>>>> Projection, as always.  I'll add the above to the list. >> >>>>>>> I did not say that no TM can ever report on behavior that matches >>>>>>> the behavior of a directly executing TM. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good, because that's all that's required for a solution to the >>>>>> halting problem: >>>>>> >>>>> There are sometimes when the behavior of TM Description D correctly >>>>> simulated by UTM1 does not match the behavior correctly simulated by >>>>> UTM2. >>>> >>>> Irrelevant, because to satisfy the requirements, the behavior of the >>>> described machine when executed directly must be reported. >>> >>> I HAVE PROVED THAT THE REQUIREMENT IS WRONG NITWIT. >>> A FUNCTION THAT IS REQUIRED TO COMPUTE THE SQUARE OF A BOX OF ROCKS IS >>> ALSO INCORRECT. > >> It is wrong to ask for the behaviour of the direct execution? Anyways, >> HHH can't do it. >> > > Unless and until one TM can take another executing > TM as an input IT IS WRONG TO REQUIRE A TM TO REPORT > ON SOMETHING THAT IT CANNOT SEE. > In other words, you agree that Linz is correct.