Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 13:10:46 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 48 Message-ID: References: <211f9a2a284cb2deaa666f424c1ef826fe855e80@i2pn2.org> <3f250e699762cfe6fccc844f10eb04f32d470b6a@i2pn2.org> <8423998561d8feee807509b0ed6335123d35a7c9@i2pn2.org> <448c82acff6b5fc1d2aa266be92df6f778ec2c6a@i2pn2.org> <61f821b5a18046ab36ddb6c52a003b574cf34de6@i2pn2.org> <9be1ff2af6bbf405565b27bc8211adf9f353e9f2@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:10:47 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8fbd84b24c3af7ac080451312d40f885"; logging-data="871811"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+F43fX1mpTaRSt6qWvskFu" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:CbRy32Tid4P2cyKTAivY7xrUKZs= In-Reply-To: <9be1ff2af6bbf405565b27bc8211adf9f353e9f2@i2pn2.org> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250327-8, 3/27/2025), Outbound message Bytes: 3919 On 3/27/2025 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 3/26/25 11:47 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 3/26/2025 10:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 3/26/25 11:09 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> >>>> _DDD() >>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping >>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04 >>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp >>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>> >>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final staste even >>>>> if an unbounded number of steps are emulated. Since HHH doesn't do >>>>> that, it isn't showing non-halting. >>>>> >>>> >>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final state >>>> in an unbounded number of steps. >>> >>> But DDD emulated by an actually correct emulator will, >> >> If you were not intentionally persisting in a lie you >> would acknowledge the dead obvious that DDD emulated >> by HHH according to the semantics of the x86 language >> cannot possibly correctly reach its final halt state. > > And if you were not intentionally persisting in a lie, you would admit > that your HHH doesn't do that, as it stops before it finishes. > >> >> The behavior that DDD specifies to HHH the behavior >> that it must report on. > > > Which, by the definition, is the behavior of the directly executed DDD, That is counter-factual. The behavior IS WHAT IT IS and that includes recursive emulation. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer