Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: energy in UK Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 15:38:28 +0100 Organization: Poppy Records Lines: 58 Message-ID: <1razspq.heycjx1t3oocgN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> References: <6cblvjtuqq506j5l5uvvrkvcvj549klff8@4ax.com> <1raxpc1.wxxc7n63qcuuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <2r58dlxrps.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <1raz9nr.669c7xme4ln6N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net 9eGLzG/141ibnV1lhrz5HAFXbG3jRWl3S+JIPsUwrxLXJzjFB7 X-Orig-Path: liz Cancel-Lock: sha1:TUukml4bjsSTw/8jCtjLQxGDO0Y= sha256:ogCzRKb9DSk4zNlK0fSrK5d3Jhtc13k5WvJCnDkRluc= User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.6 Bytes: 3616 Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2025-04-18 09:53, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > > Carlos E.R. wrote: > > > >> On 2025-04-17 23:11, Don Y wrote: > >>> On 4/17/2025 1:44 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote: > >>>> Probably all of Spain has smart meters now. But the reason was, AFAIK, > >>>> that here the contract limits the current you can draw. For instance, > >>>> a contract can say that you can draw 15A (3450W). The meter has the > >>>> ability to switch off when you try to draw 16A for a time. > >>> > >>> Wow!  Now THAT is interesting.  Here, the size of your service > >>> (ampacity) effectively determines what you can use -- that, and your > >>> wallet. > >> > >> I think that is an Spanish only feature. > >> > >> They charge us for the watts we actually take, and also a fixed monthly > >> amount for the size of the pipe. Meaning, if we contract for a maximum > >> of 15A, we pay for that, €/month. If we contract 30A, we pay double > >> fixed amount per month. And the smart meter controls that we don't > >> contract 20 and take 21. > >> > >> So people try to contract the minimum they actually need. > > [...] > > > > Is there some time-averaging provision for high start-up transients, > > such as motors would need? > > Yes. The trigger is slow. > > > > Is the metering based on wattage or current? > > Before smart meters, it was certainly current, a slow switch triggered > by heat or a magnetic field. With smart meters I don't actually know. > > The meters measure watts. > > > > > The current draw of a multiple lighting installation in a shop may be > > capacitive or the motors in a small workshop would be inductive and this > > would determine the size of cables needed, so current-based netering > > would make sense for that purpose. The current wouldn't be > > representative of the energy used, so wattage-based metering would make > > sense for energy-consumption billing purposes. > > I suppose current smart meters can also measure the power factor. I expect they could easily do both - but I would be worried about which one was used to calculate my bill. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk