Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: AMuzi Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Ove Interest? Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2025 09:38:19 -0600 Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd. Lines: 147 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:38:24 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="576c9761665a7a02547348a8d3547e3c"; logging-data="696999"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+gKlCu2VYqMC4uwNQnHM2X" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:3KPyx7sjur21yFZtWEpfyb5OCsQ= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 7363 On 2/15/2025 3:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: > On 2/15/2025 1:45 PM, AMuzi wrote: >> On 2/15/2025 11:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>> On 2/15/2025 9:49 AM, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>> AMuzi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> How about some low hanging fruit?  The Official Policy >>>>> Statement, which was enforced by censorship and >>>>> manipulation, was that the mRNA jab would prevent >>>>> contraction of the Wuhan virus and block contagion as well >>>>> (those constituting the definition of a vaccine).  Neither >>>>> is actually true. >>>>> >>>>> The interested reader might peruse the record of 'fact >>>>> check' statements on that. Other examples abound. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Was that said officially in the US? Certainly even with >>>> Boris who well does >>>> like an mis truth or two! They talked about flattening >>>> the curve ie keeping >>>> folks out of hospital which the vaccines will reduce the >>>> probability, but >>>> also with lockdowns to slow infection down as the >>>> vaccine will not stop >>>> that, thats why lockdowns where needed to prevent >>>> intensive care being >>>> overwhelmed. >>> >>> As I recall, in Ohio Dr. Amy Acton did talk about the >>> vaccine and social distancing flattening the curve. I >>> don't recall any statements that the vaccine would be >>> 100% effective in preventing contagion, and I'd be very >>> surprised if that was said, since AFAIK no vaccines are >>> 100% effective. >>> >>> There's been far too much Monday Morning Quarterbacking >>> about Covid. People on one side of politics seem to >>> forget that when infections first spread, hospitals were >>> absolutely overwhelmed, even formerly healthy people were >>> dying, medical staff were working non-stop, triage tents >>> were set up in hospital parking lots, etc. The virus was >>> an unknown and was causing great damage. >>> >>> Certainly, some initial scientific findings were errors. >>> But that's a normal part of science: People do research, >>> publish findings, others try to replicate, and mistakes >>> are corrected. Given the crisis at hand, health and >>> government officials were not wrong to bet on safety, >>> even if some of the steps (like washing down door >>> handles) ultimately turned out to have low value. >>> >>> People on one side of the political spectrum seem to have >>> a tendency toward absolutism. One scientific mistake >>> tells them _all_ science is useless. One failed law tells >>> them _all_ laws are useless. One bad politician tells >>> them _all_ politicians are useless - except their own, of >>> course. >>> >>> The world is a bit more complicated than that. >>> >>> >> >> https://www.rev.com/transcripts/joe-biden-covid-vaccine- >> booster-shots- speech-briefing-transcript > > That's a pretty long reading assignment. But skimming it, I > didn't see where he claimed 100% protection. Again, AFAIK no > vaccine does 100%. I don't think it was ever promised or > anticipated by anyone with decent knowledge. > >> >> Although there may be someone holding the beliefs you >> exaggerate above, none of them correspond here on RBT. >> Many people, I included, think any assertion, scientific >> or otherwise, ought to withstand inquiry, testing and >> corroboration.  Sadly, this is now a critical existential >> issue among the sciences as errors in published papers, >> forcing withdrawal, is skyrocketing, whether due to >> outright fraud or rank incompetence. There are hardly >> enough people replicating procedures to verify conclusions >> in scientific papers and if there were more that would >> likely expose yet more error. > > It would help if you would give relevant examples. Yes, I'm > aware that there is and has been scientific fraud. But it's > a small percentage of the output of Science, and it doesn't > mean that we should pretend the entire mechanism of science > should be ignored. > > As far as people on RBT espousing the views I paraphrased, > most people are careful to make implications rather than > outright statements. You have made many, many remarks > disparaging various laws with words like "How's that law > working out?"  Was I wrong to interpret that as "Laws don't > work"? > > Our bike path tricycle rider has many times disparaged > almost all sources of information - except, somehow, the > ones he chooses to listen to. > > John has many times implied that all? or most? studies are > biased to worthlessness, repeating his anecdote about a man > who claimed he can make any study yield whatever data is > desired. > > Tom goes so far as to claim that there was a major recession > and stock market crash during Obama's term, despite > mountains of info proving that false. > >> >> And in the instant case, politicians should also not be >> exempt from inquiry, testing and verification of their >> assertions. >> > > The lost confidence in scientific paper content and conclusions is an actual epidemic, much discussed in that venue for years and increasingly so. I posted this link a couple of years ago here: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03974-8 Update: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-01609-0 and: https://www.sheltonherald.com/news/article/fake-papers-are-contaminating-the-world-s-20063043.php These failures have even reached the popular press, as discussed here a month or so ago regarding kitchen utensils, over a basic arithmetic error. https://www.acsh.org/news/2024/12/23/dont-throw-out-your-black-plastic-spatulas-49201 Then there's outright fraud: https://ukgag.com/science/the-university-of-rochester-has-confirmed-that-it-no-longer-employs-ranga-dias-who-was-found-by-investigators-to-have-committed-data-fabrication/ Oh, and back to Wuhan: https://www.thecollegefix.com/over-500-covid-studies-retracted-for-unreliable-information-watchdog/ -- Andrew Muzi am@yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971