Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: wij Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 22:34:13 +0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 100 Message-ID: References: <11cc09876004107c47467b9481f614f45f450f2c.camel@gmail.com> <674a661e498281cca55b322cbd5905a1988a6171.camel@gmail.com> <088556c03067d8de7184bf88dd01cc6b8c99ba1b.camel@gmail.com> <09cea75db07408dc9203aca3fb74408ad3a095b4.camel@gmail.com> <853816e160c7b3fe75c71f0728e72989d9fb2e41.camel@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 16:34:15 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1aa223d640888d616762f0efff606324"; logging-data="504135"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/GXtUdyq/blF5SwSk+YEtN" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Cancel-Lock: sha1:uPhXZ59aQszezb1pkuqUSloEceA= In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5738 On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 21:19 -0500, olcott wrote: > On 5/10/2025 9:09 PM, wij wrote: > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:56 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > On 5/10/2025 8:44 PM, wij wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:26 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > On 5/10/2025 8:17 PM, wij wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 17:03 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 4:44 PM, wij wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 14:29 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 2:02 PM, wij wrote: > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > You don't know the counter example in the HP proof, your D is n= ot the case what HP says. > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > Sure I do this is it! (as correctly encoded in C) > > > > >=20 > > > > > typedef void (*ptr)(); > > > > > int HHH(ptr P); > > > > >=20 > > > > > int DD() > > > > > { > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int Halt_Status =3D HHH(DD); > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if (Halt_Status) > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HERE: goto HERE; > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return Halt_Status; > > > > > } > > > > >=20 > > > > > int main() > > > > > { > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HHH(DD); > > > > > } > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Try to convert it to TM language to know you know nothing. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > I spent 22 years on this. I started with the Linz text > > >=20 > > > When =C4=A4 is applied to =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 > > > =C4=A4.q0 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* embedded_H =E2=9F=A8=C4= =A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* =C4=A4.qy =E2=88=9E > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or > > > =C4=A4.q0 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* embedded_H =E2=9F=A8=C4= =A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* =C4=A4.qn > > >=20 > > > (a) =C4=A4 copies its input =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 > > > (b) =C4=A4 invokes embedded_H =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4= =A4=E2=9F=A9 > > > (c) embedded_H simulates =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2= =9F=A9 ... > > >=20 > > > Thus =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 correctly simu= lated by embedded_H > > > cannot possibly reach its simulated final halt state > > > =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4.qn=E2=9F=A9 > > >=20 > > > > To refute the HP, you need to understand what it exactly means in T= M. > > >=20 > > > I have known this for 22 years. > >=20 > > A working TM.=C2=A0Build it explicitly from transition function, then e= xplain > > your derivation. You know nothing. > >=20 >=20 > That would be like examining how an operating system > works entirely from its machine code. You are refuting a CS foundamental theorem (i.e. HP) officially. So, yes, and actually MORE need to be done (beyond your imagination). = =20 Knowing a car or smart phone,... is far different from making one. Knowing E=3Dmc^2 is far from knowing relativity, making A-bomb (actually, m= aking=20 A-bomb don't need to know E=3Dmc^2, people are often fooled by popular sayi= ng) =20 Every chapter of Linz's book, C text textbook has exercises, you need to th= ose exercises AT LEAST to comment CS (and computation theory is more advanced t= opic than TM). Saying so is because we know you can't do the exercise and boast = lots about TM stuff (and pretty much anything else from just reading words), eve= n about theorem. > We only have to actually know one detail: > Every counter-example input encoded in any model > of computation always specifies recursive simulation > that never halts to its corresponding simulating > termination analyzer. More example here that you don't understand nearly all CS terms.