Path: ...!news.nobody.at!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Roger Merriman Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Very Slow Leaks. Date: 13 May 2025 21:24:50 GMT Lines: 146 Message-ID: References: <994UP.131360$dgta.82159@fx33.iad> <57o42kh8f7lfrsdrjarjuqbccfnacfkrdn@4ax.com> <3t962k152a146uo5kb8geojsbadknail4v@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net B1VO5PpIr7gcZ5ORUg7hUQiSZRa5j3S+bSs05AOUGR+gzJx6wo Cancel-Lock: sha1:RjsEgSZyAi234HK4G0rvzXL9GJo= sha1:Dlrotmwm8Lp2KE89QTep5fBhtVE= sha256:K6i4UDO5016UAhe9Np3Lg29Hrnjb1hVzMwNQLmQA94Y= User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad) Bytes: 7539 Catrike Ryder wrote: > On 13 May 2025 18:54:19 GMT, Roger Merriman wrote: > >> Catrike Ryder wrote: >>> On 13 May 2025 16:19:16 GMT, Roger Merriman wrote: >>> >>>> Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>> On 13 May 2025 09:16:02 GMT, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>>>> On 12 May 2025 20:47:41 GMT, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 7:03 AM, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2025 3:50 PM, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> He has a touring bike, they tend to be fitted with rather more robust >>>>>>>>>>>> tyres... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My touring bike has had Panaracer Paselas for many years. When one good >>>>>>>>>>> friend died, I inherited a Pasela with some extra flat protection - >>>>>>>>>>> maybe called "Tourguard" or something? (I forget, and I'm not home to >>>>>>>>>>> check.) But I don't think I've mounted that one yet. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Even so they would be thicker casing than the Gatorskins plus more tread... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know that's true. I've used Gatorskins on our tandem for years. >>>>>>>>> I never noticed any great difference in tread thickness between the two >>>>>>>>> types of tires. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> says 3.6 mm vs 3.2mm for the >>>>>>>> casing and another 1mm or so of tread? They do seem though to have same >>>>>>>> weight, clearly they are much thinner than a Marathon or similar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But I?ve never used the Pasela, though I have used the Gatorskins if quite >>>>>>>> a long time ago now! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But admittedly, the tandem is a very different sort of beast. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fair bit more weight and load on the sidewalls I?d guess! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roger Merriman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you're going to mention Schwalbe Marathon tires, you need to >>>>>>> specify which one. There are several and they're all different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/search?search=marathon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> C'est bon >>>>>>> Soloman >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Not that different, the standard Marathon is that a standard normal >>>>>> Marathon, some with variation in tread design but broadly quite similar, >>>>>> >>>>>> There is the Plus variants of which I?ve used two out of the three tyres >>>>>> namely the Marathon plus and the Marathon touring plus, both are fairly >>>>>> similar in use, both can cope with some mud on a path, but are overwhelming >>>>>> by even quite mild amounts. ie the tread can?t clear I?d expect the MTB >>>>>> variation to behave similarly for similar reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Even gravel bike tyres tend to be less drifty and clear better. >>>>>> >>>>>> Roger Merriman >>>>> >>>>> There is no "normal standard Marathon" tire. Most of the Marathon >>>>> tires are quite different from each other and perform differently. >>>> >>>> there are minor >>>> variations in tread patterns such as the marathon green, or racer, as a >>>> range it?s quite homogeneous with the main difference in behaviour being >>>> the plus versions have a harsher ride, due to stiffer sidewalls. >>>> >>>> The tread is all fairly closely packed and almost entirely cosmetic, my old >>>> Commute bike which used to have Marathon tour plus tyres which has more >>>> substantial tread than the big apples but behaves the same off road, in >>>> that though the blocks are deeper they are still closely packed and so >>>> squirm on mud as they can?t get mechanical traction, and have no ability to >>>> bite in gravel or wet grass etc. >>>> >>>> Very different to say MTB or Gravel tyres which can have quite different >>>> characteristics despite looking reasonably similar. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> C'est bon >>>>> Soloman >>>>> >>>> >>>> Roger Merriman >>> >>> It's not aboiut the tread, which is cosmetic for roadbikes. It's >>> underneath the tread that makes them different. >> >> The carcass is same across the range, with the difference being the plus or >> non plus versions mainly that the plus versions, have a much harsher ride, >> something I’m glad to report that the One plus the roadie line with plus >> doesn’t suffer from. >> >> Is I think a version with Addix (mildly racier compound) but very much >> still a good hybrid/commuting tyre with different styles with minor >> differences, note even off road the tread because it’s close packed makes >> little difference. >> >> Much bigger difference once you step out of the family to stuff like Big >> Apples and the like, though they are still hybrid commuting type of things >> but they have much more supple ride etc. >>> >>> -- >>> C'est bon >>> Soloman >>> >> Roger Merriman > > It's the layer under the tread that sets them apart and makes them > perform diferently. Schwalbe calls it the protection level, and it has > a big effect on performance, not just in puncture resistance, but in > rolling resistance. The "plus" versions with the heavy layer are > slower enough for me to have notices, and the lighter layer on the > Racer tires are sigificantly slower than the Green Guards according to > my tests on asphalt. > > -- > C'est bon > Soloman > Yes how a tyre deforms under load gives it’s rolling resistance plus potentially some tread though this is with MTB tyres, and to an extent Gravel tyres. Yes the plus variants are slower, though as either the protection layer is interacting with the carcass and or the sidewall is different, they the Marathon and Marathon touring in plus variety have fairly awful ride characteristics aka very harsh. The non plus versions are well just normal for the type, the Big Apples have a more supple feel as they have lighter sidewalls, not as supple as a Gravel or road tyre but supple for the type. Roger Merriman