Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met --- WDH Date: Tue, 13 May 2025 16:30:20 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 101 Message-ID: <1000dlc$21dtc$5@dont-email.me> References:

MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 13 May 2025 23:30:21 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="43745e07502355f27fac5eed8a7d2487"; logging-data="2144172"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18UnoUem+kYq1+h3TEKHv6d" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:liQxJX4pOlW4DI1in/UobF3rN9w= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250513-6, 5/13/2025), Outbound message Bytes: 5082 On 5/13/2025 6:43 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 5/13/25 12:52 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/12/2025 11:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 5/12/25 10:53 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 5/12/2025 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 5/12/25 2:17 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> Introduction to the Theory of Computation 3rd Edition >>>>>> by Michael Sipser (Author) >>>>>> 4.4 out of 5 stars 568 rating >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Theory-Computation-Michael- >>>>>> Sipser/ dp/113318779X >>>>>> >>>>>> int DD() >>>>>> { >>>>>> int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); >>>>>> if (Halt_Status) >>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>> return Halt_Status; >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> DD correctly simulated by any pure simulator >>>>>> named HHH cannot possibly terminate thus proving >>>>>> that this criteria has been met: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its >>>>>> input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D >>>>>> would never stop running unless aborted then >>>>>> >>>>>> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D >>>>>> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >>>>>> >>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which your H doesn't do, as it can not correctly determine what >>>>> doesn't happen. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Any C programmer can correctly tell what doesn't happen. >>>> What doesn't happen is DD reaching its "return" statement >>>> final halt state. >>>> >>> >>> Sure they can, since that is the truth, as explained. >>> >>> Since your "logic" is based on lies and equivocation, >> >> If my logic was based on lies and equivocation >> then you could provide actual reasoning that >> corrects my errors. > > I hae. > >> >> It is truism that simulating termination analyzers >> must report on the behavior of their input as if >> they themselves never aborted this simulation: > > Right, of the input actually given to them, which must include all their > code, and that code is what is actually there, not created by this > imaginary operation. > In other words every single byte of HHH and DD are 100% totally identical except the hypothetical HHH has its abort code commented out. > Thus, a HHH that aborts to return an answer, when looking at the DDD > that calls it, must look at the unaborted emulation of THAT DDD, that > calls the HHH that DOES abort and return an answer, as that is what the > PROGRAM DDD is, If you can not create the HHH that does that without > changing that input, that is a flaw in your system, not the problem. > >> >> *simulated D would never stop running unless aborted* >> or they themselves could become non-terminating. > > But you aren't simulating the same PROGRAM D that the original was given. > It is not supposed to be the same program. *simulated D would never stop running* refers to a different HHH/DD pair It is a hypothetical HHH/DD pair where everything is exactly the same except that HHH has no abort code. Ben freaked out that professor Sipser agreed to my use of the term *would* in *simulated D would never stop running* and said that he thought I tricked professor Sipser. This is all still there in newsgroup servers that don't keep deleting older messages. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer