Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: wij Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 05:44:34 +0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 259 Message-ID: References: <875xiaejzg.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <87jz6qczja.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <5b14da4260c0b7e3235ce05f752c092fade4d70e.camel@gmail.com> <11cc09876004107c47467b9481f614f45f450f2c.camel@gmail.com> <674a661e498281cca55b322cbd5905a1988a6171.camel@gmail.com> <088556c03067d8de7184bf88dd01cc6b8c99ba1b.camel@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Sat, 10 May 2025 23:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c665478d8699930ce63ac26f3a79e21a"; logging-data="3906248"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+9vvvsENUfhq5LstprM/Ct" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Cancel-Lock: sha1:tTFkZlMvDM7720h9AEtRIQFreuU= In-Reply-To: Bytes: 12693 On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 14:29 -0500, olcott wrote: > On 5/10/2025 2:02 PM, wij wrote: > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 13:47 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > On 5/10/2025 1:37 PM, wij wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 13:17 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > On 5/10/2025 1:09 PM, wij wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 12:17 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 12:01 PM, wij wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 11:47 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 11:29 AM, wij wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 11:19 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 11:06 AM, wij wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 10:45 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 10:28 AM, wij wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 09:33 -0500, olcott wrote= : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 7:37 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 09.05.2025 um 04:22 schrieb olcott: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at their replies to this post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a one of them will agree that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > void DDD() > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HHH(DDD); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return; // final halt state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When 1 or more instructions of DDD are co= rrectly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simulated by HHH then the correctly simul= ated DDD cannot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possibly reach its "return" instruction (= final halt state). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have consistently disagreed with thi= s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simple point for three years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess that not even a professor of theore= tical computer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > science would spend years working on so few= lines of code. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I created a whole x86utm operating system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It correctly determines that the halting prob= lem's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > otherwise "impossible" input is actually non = halting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > int DD() > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 int Halt_Status =3D HHH(DD); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 if (Halt_Status) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HERE: goto HERE; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 return Halt_Status; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0From = I know HHH(DD) decides whether the input DD is "impossible" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > input > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > > DD has the standard form of the "impossible" inpu= t. > > > > > > > > > > > > > HHH merely rejects it as non-halting. > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > > You said 'merely' rejects it as non-halting. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, POOH do not answer the input of any other funct= ion? > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > The input that has baffled computer scientists for 90 > > > > > > > > > > > years is merely correctly determined to be non-haltin= g > > > > > > > > > > > when the behavior of this input is measured by HHH > > > > > > > > > > > emulating this input according to the rules of the x8= 6 > > > > > > > > > > > language. > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > The same thing applies to the Linz proof yet cannot > > > > > > > > > > > be understood until after HHH(DDD) and HHH(DD) are > > > > > > > > > > > fully understood. > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > HHH(DDD) (whatever) at most says DDD is a pathological/= midtaken input. > > > > > > > > > > Others of what you say are your imagine and wishes, so = far so true. > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > DDD emulated by HHH accor not the 'HHH' that makes the fi= nal decision > > > > > > (otherwise, it will be an infinite recursive call which you agr= eed) > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > ding to the rules of > > > > > > > > > the x86 language specifies recursive emulation > > > > > > > > > that cannot possibly reach the final halt state > > > > > > > > > of DDD. > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > I have no problem with that. And, you said HHH merely rejec= ts it as non-halting. > > > > > > > > You had denied HHH can decide the halting property of any i= nput, except DDD/DD/D.. > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > As long as HHH correctly determines the halt status > > > > > > > of a single input that has no inputs then HHH is > > > > > > > a correct termination analyzer for that input. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Go it, that is a stronger statement that HHH ONLY decides DD. > > > > > > I have no problem with that, but be noticed that the HHH inside= DD > > > > > > is not the 'HHH' that makes the final decision (otherwise, the = 'HHH' > > > > > > will be an infinite recursive which cannot make any decision, w= hich > > > > > > you had agreed) > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > HHH(DD) correctly determines that its input specifies > > > > > recursive emulation when this input is emulated by HHH > > > > > HHH according to the rules of the x86 language. > > > >=20 > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0From the about, so you are talking about 'the HHH' whic= h does not compute the final > > > > decision. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > HHH does recognize the recursive emulation pattern > > > of DDD emulated by HHH according to the rules of > > > the x86 language. > > >=20 > > > > > *Thus exactly meets the following specification* > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If simulating halt decider H= correctly simulates its > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 input D until H correctly de= termines that its simulated D > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 would never stop running unl= ess aborted then > > > > >=20 > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 H can abort its simulation o= ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========