Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: HHH(DD) --- COMPUTE ACTUAL MAPPING FROM INPUT TO OUTPUT --- Ignoramus !!! Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 10:28:33 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 90 Message-ID: References: <852f89c9196e0261b8156050fea4572fe886933f@i2pn2.org> <63af93cb608258cc3e12b9bab3a2efa0b7ee7eee@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 17:28:34 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="513b7ff7137ccbc73f1df5ad6a929a2f"; logging-data="547186"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+n/qvtE3wK/BhIR82ZeRWK" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:jXRczM+9q6gpylOpQF/ulYdsfrk= In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250430-2, 4/30/2025), Outbound message Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus-Status: Clean On 4/29/2025 4:49 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2025-04-28 15:52:13 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 4/28/2025 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2025-04-16 17:36:31 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> On 4/16/2025 7:29 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>> On 16/04/2025 12:40, olcott wrote: >>>>>> sum(3,2) IS NOT THE SAME AS sum(5,2). >>>>>> IT IS EITHER STUPID OR DISHONEST FOR YOU TO TRY TO >>>>>> GET AWAY FOR CLAIMING THIS USING THE STRAW DECEPTION >>>>>> INTENTIONALLY INCORRECT PARAPHRASE OF MY WORDS. >>>>> >>>>> Whether sum(3,2) is or is not the same as sum(5,2) is not the >>>>> question. The question is whether a universal termination analyser >>>>> can be constructed, and the answer is that it can't. >>>>> >>>>> This has been rigorously proved. If you want to overturn the proof >>>>> you've got your work cut out to persuade anyone to listen, not >>>>> least because anyone who tries to enter into a dialogue with you is >>>>> met with contempt and scorn. >>>>> >>>>> The proof stands. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *corresponding output to the input* >>>> *corresponding output to the input* >>>> *corresponding output to the input* >>>> *corresponding output to the input* >>>> *corresponding output to the input* >>>> >>>> Not freaking allowed to look at any damn thing >>>> else besides the freaking input. Must compute whatever >>>> mapping ACTUALLY EXISTS FROM THIS INPUT. >>> >>> A halt decider is is not allowed to compute "whatever" mapping. It is >>> required to compute one specific mapping: to "no" if the computation >>> described by the input can be continesd forever without halting, to >>> "no" otherwise. >> >> It must do this by applying the finite string transformation >> rules specified by the x86 language to the input to HHH(DD). > > No, it needn't. A halt decider cannot do other than certain finite string > operations. No relation to x86 language is required. > >> This DOES NOT DERIVE THE BEHAVIOR OF THE DIRECTLY EXECUTED DD. > > Whether the execution is "direct" or otherwise is irrelevant. A computation > either halts or not. A halt decider must just tell whether the somputation > halts. It is true that no Turing machine can determine this about every > computation, i.e., no Turing machine is a halt decider. > >> It DOES DERIVE DD EMULATED BY HHH AND ALSO DERIVES THE RECURSIVE >> EMULATION OF HHH EMULATING ITSELF EMULATING DD. > > Which are not mentioned in the halting problem. > When understand rather than simply ignore the HHH/DD example it can be seen that every conventional halting problem proof suffers the same fate. The contradictory part of the "impossible" input IS NEVER REACHABLE. int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; } It took several C programmers only a few minutes to see this. The same thing applies to the Peter Linz proof. Unlike the HHH/DD example the Linz proof lacks a fully specified termination analyzer written in a language that has a complete definition. Disagreeing with my 100% complete proof is like disagreeing with arithmetic. There are no weasel words or double-talk that can possibly get around this: DD emulated by HHH according to the finite string transformation rules of the x86 language DOES NOT HALT! -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer