Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Tim Rentsch Newsgroups: comp.lang.c Subject: Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 05:02:45 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 60 Message-ID: <86bjtpjp22.fsf@linuxsc.com> References: <868qp1ra5f.fsf@linuxsc.com> <20250319115550.0000676f@yahoo.com> <20250319201903.00005452@yahoo.com> <86r02roqdq.fsf@linuxsc.com> <86o6xpk8sn.fsf@linuxsc.com> <20250325011327.41@kylheku.com> <20250325131110.000056bd@yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 13:02:45 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="dc97818a680e22f6747ff94516233a05"; logging-data="3440865"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/27nbtlr1WXFMY/axkg6LDz6fGVsV1rA4=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:pfsjhOQCJTGdgov2X+BWN/8tz5w= sha1:E3cjkpsno9Pa+TA9HMmDiNzvH6I= Michael S writes: > On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:39:04 -0000 (UTC) > Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote: > >> On 2025-03-25, Janis Papanagnou >> wrote: >> >>> On 25.03.2025 05:56, Tim Rentsch wrote: >>> >>>> Janis Papanagnou writes: >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>> When I started with "C" or C++ there were not only 8-bit >>>>> multiples defined for the integral types; [...] >>>> >>>> In C the correct phrase is integer types, not integral types. >>> >>> My apologies if I'm using language independent terms. I'm confident, >>> though, that most people (obviously you as well) understood the >>> term. >> >> You are 100% correct. You made it clear that you're referring >> to a time /when you started with C/. I remember from past discussions >> that this was sufficiently long ago that it was ISO C90 or ANSI C, >> if not earlier. >> >> In ISO 9899:1990, we have this: >> >> 6.1.2.5 Types >> >> [...] >> >> "The type char, the signed and unsigned integer types. and the >> enumerated types are collectively called integral types." >> ^^^^^^^^ >> >> The integral types were renamed between C90 and C99. However, >> "integral types" remains part of C history. C90 is a still valid, >> historic and historically significant dialect of C. >> >> Even today, it is misleading to say that "integral types" >> is an incorrect way to talk about C. It's a terminology that >> has been formally superseded since C90. However, it is a term >> used in computer science and mathematics, and fine for informal >> discussions that don't revolve around language-lawyering. >> >> The word has two pronunciations in English. When the emphasis is on >> the first syllalble: IN-tgrl, it is a noun which refers to the >> opposite of a calculus derivative. The integral of x^2 from 0 to 1, >> etc. in-TE-gral is an adjective, which is is a common words---it's an >> integral part of everyday English, meaning indivisible from. In math >> and CS it is used for indicating that some quantity is in Z. > > Wouldn't the term 'whole numbers' be preferred in everyday English? "Whole numbers" are all non-negative. "Integers" include values less than zero.