Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD emulated by HHH diverges from DDD emulated by HHH1 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2025 10:35:34 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 121 Message-ID: <101pp46$ta6v$2@dont-email.me> References: <101khcl$3bfvj$6@dont-email.me> <101mbnh$3sodg$1@dont-email.me> <101njgb$7qau$3@dont-email.me> <101obh9$hd6o$5@dont-email.me> <7583cffbbdc8057fd579139bacf56e39c7ed042a@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 17:35:34 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2e2917af8031656e2bdefa3bdb47b104"; logging-data="960735"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/kAD2U9yZIMyxblelpY92G" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:IFwR0HIM7qIPdZGpzXnpWH56+fM= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250604-2, 6/4/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: <7583cffbbdc8057fd579139bacf56e39c7ed042a@i2pn2.org> On 6/4/2025 6:34 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/3/25 10:37 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 6/3/2025 9:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 6/3/25 3:47 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 6/3/2025 3:28 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 02.jun.2025 om 17:52 schreef olcott: >>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by HHH diverges from DDD >>>>>> correctly emulated by HHH1 as soon as HHH begins >>>>>> emulating itself emulating DDD, marked below. >>>>>> >>>>>> *HHH1 never emulates itself emulating DDD* >>>>>> >>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>> { >>>>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>>>    return; >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> int main() >>>>>> { >>>>>>    HHH1(DDD); >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>> [00002183] 55             push ebp >>>>>> [00002184] 8bec           mov ebp,esp >>>>>> [00002186] 6883210000     push 00002183 ; push DDD >>>>>> [0000218b] e833f4ffff     call 000015c3 ; call HHH >>>>>> [00002190] 83c404         add esp,+04 >>>>>> [00002193] 5d             pop ebp >>>>>> [00002194] c3             ret >>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002194] >>>>>> >>>>>> _main() >>>>>> [000021a3] 55             push ebp >>>>>> [000021a4] 8bec           mov ebp,esp >>>>>> [000021a6] 6883210000     push 00002183 ; push DDD >>>>>> [000021ab] e843f3ffff     call 000014f3 ; call HHH1 >>>>>> [000021b0] 83c404         add esp,+04 >>>>>> [000021b3] 33c0           xor eax,eax >>>>>> [000021b5] 5d             pop ebp >>>>>> [000021b6] c3             ret >>>>>> Size in bytes:(0020) [000021b6] >>>>>> >>>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly >>>>>>   address   address   data      code       language >>>>>>   ========  ========  ========  ========== ============= >>>>>> [000021a3][0010382d][00000000] 55         push ebp      ; main() >>>>>> [000021a4][0010382d][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; main() >>>>>> [000021a6][00103829][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD >>>>>> [000021ab][00103825][000021b0] e843f3ffff call 000014f3 ; call HHH1 >>>>>> New slave_stack at:1038d1 >>>>>> >>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored >>>>>> at:1138d9 >>>>>> [00002183][001138c9][001138cd] 55         push ebp      ; DDD of HHH1 >>>>>> [00002184][001138c9][001138cd] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD of HHH1 >>>>>> [00002186][001138c5][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD >>>>>> [0000218b][001138c1][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH >>>>>> New slave_stack at:14e2f9 >>>>>> >>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored >>>>>> at:15e301 >>>>>> [00002183][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 55         push ebp      ; DDD of >>>>>> HHH[0] >>>>>> [00002184][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD of >>>>>> HHH[0] >>>>>> [00002186][0015e2ed][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD >>>>>> [0000218b][0015e2e9][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH >>>>>> >>>>>> *This is the beginning of the divergence of the behavior* >>>>>> *of DDD emulated by HHH versus DDD emulated by HHH1* >>>>>> >>>>>> New slave_stack at:198d21 >>>>>> [00002183][001a8d19][001a8d1d] 55         push ebp      ; DDD of >>>>>> HHH[1] >>>>>> [00002184][001a8d19][001a8d1d] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD of >>>>>> HHH[1] >>>>>> [00002186][001a8d15][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD >>>>>> [0000218b][001a8d11][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH >>>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped >>>>>> >>>>>> [00002190][001138c9][001138cd] 83c404     add esp,+04 ; DDD of HHH1 >>>>>> [00002193][001138cd][000015a8] 5d         pop ebp     ; DDD of HHH1 >>>>>> [00002194][001138d1][0003a980] c3         ret         ; DDD of HHH1 >>>>>> [000021b0][0010382d][00000000] 83c404     add esp,+04 ; main() >>>>>> [000021b3][0010382d][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax ; main() >>>>>> [000021b5][00103831][00000018] 5d         pop ebp     ; main() >>>>>> [000021b6][00103835][00000000] c3         ret         ; main() >>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(352831) == 5266 Pages >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Misleading words when you change the meaning of diverging. >>>>> Mike showed the traces side by side. Even after many requests, you >>>>> still cannot show the first instruction that is interpreted >>>>> differently by HHH and HHH1. The only difference is that HHH gives >>>>> up the simulation too early. >>>> >>>> As soon as HHH begins emulating itself >>>> and HHH1 NEVER begins emulating itself >>>> THIS IS THE DIVERGENCE. >>>> >>> >>> So, WHAT INSTRUCTION, correctly simulated did that. >>> >> >> HHH emulates DDD two times and HHH1 emulates DDD one time >> the whole second time is the divergence. >> > > In other words, you are just admitting you can't point to the > instruction that things diverged, I just did you nitwit. Go back and reread it again and again until you see that I already answered your question. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer