Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 12:35:36 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 74 Message-ID: References: <87msbmeo3b.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <875xiaejzg.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <87jz6qczja.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <1276edeb9893085c59b02bbbd59fe2c64011736b@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ef7faca461217fa132b1f53eef89d0be"; logging-data="595360"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/238oVx1URMdH4gl2ftCXq" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:eR4G3WRZiLQVkrWgn+En6bgsjDo= X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250511-4, 5/11/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: On 5/11/2025 11:52 AM, dbush wrote: > On 5/11/2025 12:44 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/11/2025 6:13 AM, joes wrote: >>> Am Sat, 10 May 2025 15:42:13 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>> On 5/10/2025 3:22 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> >>>>> OK, then, give the page and line numbers from Turing's 1936 paper >>>>> where >>>>> this alleged mistake was made.  I would be surprised indeed if you'd >>>>> even looked at Turing's paper, far less understood it.  Yet you're >>>>> ready to denigrate his work. >>>>> Perhaps it is time for you to withdraw these uncalled for >>>>> insinuations. >>>>> >>>> It is the whole gist of the entire idea of the halting problem proof >>>> that is wrongheaded. >>>> (1) It is anchored in the false assumption that an input to a >>>> termination analyzer can actually do this opposite of whatever value >>>> that this analyzer returns. No one ever notices that this "do the >>>> opposite" code is unreachable. >> >>> The simulated DDD doesn't matter. HHH returns to DDD, and DDD then does >>> the opposite. >>> >> >> HHH is only allowed to report on the behavior that >> its actual input actually specifies. > > False.  It must report on the behavior of the algorithm described by the > input, as per the requirements: > That was always only based on the false assumption that these behaviors could not possibly diverge. When I proves that these behaviors DO diverge that changes everything. functions computed by models of computation must transform inputs into outputs by applying an specific algorithm. int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; } sum coverts its inputs to an output on the basis of the rules of arithmetic. A simulating termination analyzer within a model of computation transforms inputs into the behavior that these inputs specify according to the computing language of this model of computation. _DDD() [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002182] 5d pop ebp [00002183] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] DDD emulated by HHH according to the rules of the x86 language cannot possibly halt. All that you have ever been showing is your own lack of comprehension of the subtle nuances of the details of functions computed by models of computation. HHH is not allowed to violate the rules of the x86 language just to conform to some quote in a textbook. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer