Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Halting Problem: What Constitutes Pathological Input
Date: Tue, 6 May 2025 23:49:50 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <vvdr87$3n3t4$1@dont-email.me>

On 06/05/2025 21:25, olcott wrote:
> On 5/6/2025 2:35 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 5/6/2025 2:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/6/2025 7:14 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 5/6/2025 1:54 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/6/2025 12:49 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 00:29, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is the problem incorrect specification that creates
>>>>>>> the contradiction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all. The contradiction arises from the fact that it is not possible to construct a 
>>>>>> universal decider.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone here insists that functions computed
>>>>>>> by models of computation can ignore inputs and
>>>>>>> base their output on something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think anyone's saying that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you don't read so well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the exact steps for DD to be emulated by HHH
>>>>> according to the semantics of the x86 language?
>>>>> *Only an execution trace will do*
>>>>
>>>> The exact same steps for DD to be emulated by UTM.
>>>>
>>>
>>> _DD()
>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>
>>> Machine address by machine address specifics
>>> that you know that you cannot provide because
>>> you know that you are wrong.
>>>
>>
>> HHH and UTM emulate DD exactly the same up until the point that HHH aborts, 
> 
> When you trace through the actual steps you
> will see that this is counter-factual.

No, it is exactly right.  Remember, I posted a comparison of the two traces side by side some time 
ago, and they were indeed IDENTICAL line for line up to the point where HHH decided to discontinue 
simulating.  The trace by UTM continued further, with DD returning some time later.

You seem to have blanked this from your memory, presumably because the knowledge was too traumatic 
for you to absorb.

Mike.

> 
> That you lack the technical knowledge required
> to trace through the steps and say that I am
> wrong anyway is a reckless disregard for the truth.
>