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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) correctly determines the halt status of its input according to this specification Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 21:10:20 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 70 Message-ID: <1003iec$2tnhr$1@dont-email.me> References: <1001fms$29d3f$1@dont-email.me> <1002l5k$2ke1m$1@dont-email.me> <1002pj0$2ldvf$1@dont-email.me> <1002q95$2le74$1@dont-email.me> <26659d2b9662b046f302f6dffabb69c087ea177f@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 04:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="66a8f7019eb14522c3a913b396c0eecb"; logging-data="3071547"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/4vnn8sYjF71f0z7IU5pRT" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:Ap/MInv1R89nMK+WA2djr+MXQgQ= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250514-4, 5/14/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: <26659d2b9662b046f302f6dffabb69c087ea177f@i2pn2.org> On 5/14/2025 8:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 5/14/25 3:17 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/14/2025 2:06 PM, Mike Terry wrote: >>> On 14/05/2025 18:50, Mike Terry wrote: >>>> On 14/05/2025 08:11, vallor wrote: >>>>> Spent a couple of hours reading back the last few days of posts. >>>>> Huboy, >>>>> what a train wreck.  (But like a train wreck, it's hard to look >>>>> away, which might explain how this has been going on for 20(?) years.) >>>>> >>>>> I want to thank both Richard's, wij, dbush, Mike, Keith, Fred, >>>>> Mikko, and anybody else I've forgotten for trying to explain to >>>>> Mr. Olcott and Mr. Flibble how you all see their claims.  I wanted to >>>>> point out three things: >>>>> >>>>> a) Mr. Olcott claims his HHH simulator detects an non-terminating >>>>> input and halts.  But others (I forget who) report that -- due >>>>> to a bug -- D would actually terminate on its own.  His HHH >>>>> simulator therefore gives the wrong answer. >>>> >>>> Not really due to a bug.  D actually /does/ terminate on its own, >>>> and that's a consequence of PO's intended design.  (Yes, there are >>>> bugs, but D's coding is what PO intended.) >>>> >>> Hmm, I thought some more about this.  What's considered a bug (rather >>> than e.g. a design error) is entirely dependent on the program's >>> specification. >> >> void DDD() >> { >>    HHH(DDD); >>    return; >> } >> >> >>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its >>      input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D >>      would never stop running unless aborted then > > Since you DDD isn't a program, since you say that it doesn't include the > HHH that it calls, means that you can't use this, since here D *IS* a > program, as that is from the defintion of a Halt Decider, its input is > the representation OF A PROGRAM. > >> >> I did not notice how all of the rebuttals of this have >> always committed the straw-man error until yesterday. >> >> _DDD() >> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >> [00002183] c3         ret >> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >> >> A correct simulation has always meant that according >> to the rules of the x86 language HHH must emulate >> itself emulating DDD. > > > Right, which fails at the call to HHH, Liar! -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer