Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: dbush Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Every sufficiently competent C programmer knows --- Very Stupid Mistake and Liars Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 16:53:51 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 91 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:53:51 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8716d0356783f046d50792ab42ba1cd2"; logging-data="2940982"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19tC0yQORTkKE7l5DFNH+SE" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:qVWk/IUz2dQTDbdHNYgd8zzErVs= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US On 3/12/2025 4:29 PM, olcott wrote: > On 3/12/2025 2:16 PM, dbush wrote: >> On 3/11/2025 10:46 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, dbush wrote: >>>> On 3/11/2025 10:39 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:37 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:32 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:18 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:06 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:02 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2025 01:22, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If it correctly simulates infinitely many steps, it doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> terminate. Look up "infinite". >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But your task is to decide for /any/ program, not just DDD. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That, as you are so fond of saying, is 'stipulated', and >>>>>>>>>>>>> you can't get out of it. The whole point of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Entscheidungsproblem is its universality. Ignore that, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> you have nothing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Given that his code has HHH(DD) returning 0, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> THESE ARE THE WORDS ANYONE THAT DODGES THESE >>>>>>>>>>> WORDS WILL BE TAKEN FOR A LIAR >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>    return; >>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its >>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally >>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly >>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *You are simply lying that any input was ever changed* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You did precisely that when you hypothesize different code for HHH. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *THIS IS WHAT MY ORIGINAL WORDS MEANT* >>>>>>> HHH is the infinite set of every possible C function >>>>>>> that correctly emulates N steps of its input where >>>>>>> N any finite positive integer. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In other words, you're changing the input. >>>>>> >>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed. >>>>> >>>>> It is an infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs having the >>>>> property that DDD[0] ... DDD[N] never halts. >>>>> >>>> >>>> In other words, you're not answering the question that a solution to >>>> the halting problem is required to answer: >>>> >>>> (,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly >>>> (,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed >>>> directly >>>> >>> >>> Yes I am yet you refuse to pay anywhere near close >>> enough attention to see how I already fully addressed this. >>> If you pay 100% perfect attention you might get it. >>> >> >> False.  (,null) maps to 1 as per the above requirements, but your >> HHH maps (,null) to 0, therefore it fails to meet the requirements. > > > So no response? I'll take it that you agree with the above.