Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Everyone on this forum besides Keith has been a damned liar about this point Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 08:57:14 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 84 Message-ID: <102c1vr$20jl4$2@dont-email.me> References: <1025i6j$afk6$1@dont-email.me> <1025j6l$4nm5$1@dont-email.me> <1025jn5$aqju$1@dont-email.me> <1025kkk$4nm5$2@dont-email.me> <1025l2e$aqju$3@dont-email.me> <1025l7l$4nm5$3@dont-email.me> <1025n51$b964$2@dont-email.me> <1026d6e$g0hl$2@dont-email.me> <1026rvc$j3rp$3@dont-email.me> <1028s74$153ga$2@dont-email.me> <1029pul$1ah2f$17@dont-email.me> <102btll$1vija$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 15:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c5844607f8c5789cdff36a135feed3c9"; logging-data="2117284"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+pnOYiRhJ4Wm5dkVX2UIwe" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:688Akq5xYE44ITkdz/i0OWCEJog= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <102btll$1vija$1@dont-email.me> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250611-2, 6/11/2025), Outbound message On 6/11/2025 7:43 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: > Op 10.jun.2025 om 19:27 schreef olcott: >> On 6/10/2025 4:00 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>> Op 09.jun.2025 om 16:43 schreef olcott: >>>> On 6/9/2025 5:31 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 09.jun.2025 om 06:15 schreef olcott: >>>>>> On 6/8/2025 10:42 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/8/2025 11:39 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 6/8/2025 10:32 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2025 11:16 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2025 10:08 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2025 10:50 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>    return; >>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The *input* to simulating termination analyzer HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No it's not, as halt deciders / termination analyzers work >>>>>>>>>>> with algorithms, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That is stupidly counter-factual. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That you think that shows that >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My understanding is deeper than yours. >>>>>>>> No decider ever takes any algorithm as its input. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they take a description/specification of an algorithm, >>>>>> >>>>>> There you go. >>>>>> >>>>>>> which is what is meant in this context. >>>>>> >>>>>> It turns out that this detail makes a big difference. >>>>>> >>>>>>> And because your HHH does not work with the description/ >>>>>>> specification of an algorithm, by your own admission, you're not >>>>>>> working on the halting problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HHH(DDD) takes a finite string of x86 instructions >>>>>> that specify that HHH simulates itself simulating DDD. >>>>> >>>>> And HHH fails to see the specification of the x86 instructions. It >>>>> aborts before it can see how the program ends. >>>>> >>>> >>>> This is merely a lack of sufficient technical competence >>>> on your part. It is a verified fact that unless the outer >>>> HHH aborts its simulation of DDD that DDD simulated by HHH >>>> the directly executed DDD() and the directly executed HHH() >>>> would never stop running. That you cannot directly see this >>>> is merely your own lack of sufficient technical competence. >>> >>> But the abort is coded in the input. >> >> I corrected you on this too many times. Stopping running >> is not halting. Only reaching a final halt state is halting. >> That I had to tell you this several times seems to prove >> that you are dishonest. > > You have been corrected on this many timed by many people. > Failing to reach the final state because of a premature abort There is no premature abort you are just stupid. > is no > counter argument. > It cannot be, because the verified fact is that the input specifies a > halting program, but your HHH fails to see that part of the input by the > premature abort. > If you are not dishonest or stubborn, you must have a mental problem to > learn from your errors. > > -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer