Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++ Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 08:58:48 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 69 Message-ID: <102jv6o$793t$5@dont-email.me> References: <102erpt$2ohps$5@dont-email.me> <102gvs0$3d4cf$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 15:58:49 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="bb7bd0e2eb35212c3f1546592393724a"; logging-data="238717"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1958Zi0LrXTmfiAjjozZ77e" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:xSYGLiwLsDp8CP10EP4naINdSM4= In-Reply-To: <102gvs0$3d4cf$1@dont-email.me> X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250614-2, 6/14/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US On 6/13/2025 5:51 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2025-06-12 15:30:05 +0000, olcott said: > >> int DD() >> { >>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); >>    if (Halt_Status) >>      HERE: goto HERE; >>    return Halt_Status; >> } >> >> It is a verified fact that DD() *is* one of the forms >> of the counter-example input as such an input would >> be encoded in C. Christopher Strachey wrote his in CPL. >> >> // rec routine P >> //   §L :if T[P] go to L >> //     Return § >> // https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/7/4/313/354243 >> void Strachey_P() >> { >>    L: if (HHH(Strachey_P)) goto L; >>    return; >> } >> >> https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article-abstract/7/4/313/354243? >> redirectedFrom=fulltext > > Strachey only informally presents the idea of the proof. Formalism > and details needed in a rigorous proof is not shown. > >> It *is* a verified fact DD correctly simulated by HHH >> cannot possibly reach its own "return" statement >> final halt state. > > That "cannot possibly" is not a part of any verifiable fact as > it is not sufficiently well-defined for a verification. What > cannot be stated cearly and unambiguoulsy cannot be a verified > fact. > void DDD() { HHH(DDD); return; } _DDD() [00002192] 55 push ebp [00002193] 8bec mov ebp,esp [00002195] 6892210000 push 00002192 [0000219a] e833f4ffff call 000015d2 // call HHH [0000219f] 83c404 add esp,+04 [000021a2] 5d pop ebp [000021a3] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3] It is a self-evidently true verified fact that DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own simulated "ret" instruction final halt state in 1 to ∞ steps of correct emulation of DDD by HHH. Everyone that does not agree has less than a first year CS student's understanding of the C programming language. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer