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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Michael S Newsgroups: comp.lang.c Subject: Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 19:09:58 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 73 Message-ID: <20250325190958.0000534d@yahoo.com> References: <868qp1ra5f.fsf@linuxsc.com> <20250319115550.0000676f@yahoo.com> <20250319201903.00005452@yahoo.com> <86r02roqdq.fsf@linuxsc.com> <86o6xpk8sn.fsf@linuxsc.com> <20250325011327.41@kylheku.com> <20250325131110.000056bd@yahoo.com> <86bjtpjp22.fsf@linuxsc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 18:09:58 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="668e70784510e4348203e13af39693d7"; logging-data="3924215"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18uoE/iyT81KVPDKow4+Aovo62klBPWINA=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:aA0l69bWGjDPK27w8Vr1iX4GuyI= X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.19.1 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-w64-mingw32) On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 05:02:45 -0700 Tim Rentsch wrote: > Michael S writes: > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:39:04 -0000 (UTC) > > Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote: > > > >> On 2025-03-25, Janis Papanagnou > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On 25.03.2025 05:56, Tim Rentsch wrote: > >>> > >>>> Janis Papanagnou writes: > >>>> > >>>> [...] > >>>> > >>>>> When I started with "C" or C++ there were not only 8-bit > >>>>> multiples defined for the integral types; [...] > >>>> > >>>> In C the correct phrase is integer types, not integral types. > >>> > >>> My apologies if I'm using language independent terms. I'm > >>> confident, though, that most people (obviously you as well) > >>> understood the term. > >> > >> You are 100% correct. You made it clear that you're referring > >> to a time /when you started with C/. I remember from past > >> discussions that this was sufficiently long ago that it was ISO > >> C90 or ANSI C, if not earlier. > >> > >> In ISO 9899:1990, we have this: > >> > >> 6.1.2.5 Types > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> "The type char, the signed and unsigned integer types. and the > >> enumerated types are collectively called integral types." > >> ^^^^^^^^ > >> > >> The integral types were renamed between C90 and C99. However, > >> "integral types" remains part of C history. C90 is a still valid, > >> historic and historically significant dialect of C. > >> > >> Even today, it is misleading to say that "integral types" > >> is an incorrect way to talk about C. It's a terminology that > >> has been formally superseded since C90. However, it is a term > >> used in computer science and mathematics, and fine for informal > >> discussions that don't revolve around language-lawyering. > >> > >> The word has two pronunciations in English. When the emphasis is > >> on the first syllalble: IN-tgrl, it is a noun which refers to the > >> opposite of a calculus derivative. The integral of x^2 from 0 to > >> 1, etc. in-TE-gral is an adjective, which is is a common > >> words---it's an integral part of everyday English, meaning > >> indivisible from. In math and CS it is used for indicating that > >> some quantity is in Z. > > > > Wouldn't the term 'whole numbers' be preferred in everyday English? > > > > "Whole numbers" are all non-negative. > > "Integers" include values less than zero. Thank you. Sounds like English everyday use differs from two other languages that I know relatively well in both of which "whole" numbers include negatives.