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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 11:08:20 +0100 Organization: Poppy Records Lines: 52 Message-ID: <1rdpl78.12z2isyhywtm8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> References: <1026c1c$fci3$1@dont-email.me> <1027bpv$mvq1$1@dont-email.me> <1027e64$nfnr$2@dont-email.me> <1rdokas.pew8b1jlata8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <1027r93$qqor$1@dont-email.me> <2hte4kdg5ain91bmf3isb7vvfvq45pik9t@4ax.com> <1028eud$11k90$6@dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net nupV5qj4KPP3kwQMt5YNvg9DUMkg7n0DmkLl9d/5ga23ijr5nB X-Orig-Path: liz Cancel-Lock: sha1:EJrJjjeXpkAg1YXORLLpsijq2Lk= sha256:fQy9859S8rRZfyTqCkkYZEnm8uzNr3wgNuwLVywNehw= User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.6 Bill Sloman wrote: > On 10/06/2025 10:04 am, john larkin wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 16:37:28 -0700, Don Y > > wrote: > > > >> On 6/9/2025 1:44 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > >>> Carlos E.R. wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 2025-06-09 21:54, Don Y wrote: > OTOH, we're sticking with other > >>>>technologies (fossil fuels -- coal -- and > nukes) despite obvious and > >>>>yet to be solved problems INHERENT in their > technology.  Adding > >>>>"inertia" synthetically to a network is a considerably > more > >>>>realistic goal than sorting out how to deal with nuclear waste or > > >>>>the consequences of burning carbon. > >>>> > >>>> Solar and wind can be made to impose a gigantic inertia with > >>>> appropriate electronics. You can fixate the output at 50Hz, locked no > >>>> matter what. > >>> > >>> Only if the surplus energy is available to supply the necessary > >>>current. > >> > >> But that assumes the old usage model where the utility was the "tail" > >> wagged by the consumer "dog". > >> > >> Going forward, expect to see a closer integration of load and supply > >> management. It's just silly to over-provision just to accommodate any > >> *possible* demand when technology exists to predict and manage that > >> demand. > > > > Right. People shouldn't just be allowed to cook or do their laundry or > > heat their houses whenever they feel like. > > But they can be offered cheaper rates to do it when the grid is less > heavily loaded. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded > > spelled it all out back in 2008. Back then Thomas Friedman laid a lot of > emphasis on electric cars which are parked 95% of the time and > potentially available as a gigantic grid storage battery. Are the batteries in those cars designed to only accommodate the 5% normal usage? How would they cope with the constant charging and discharging needed to stabilise the grid? -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk