Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.quux.org!news.nk.ca!rocksolid2!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery) Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems Subject: Re: The Lime sock on Stephan Pickering and NAMBLA Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 19:41:08 +0000 Organization: novaBBS Message-ID: <26ac92e674f8791ba06c1f8c3a7c8979@www.novabbs.com> References: <31c157534183ddc0956f4b7fafb50192@www.novabbs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="2694324"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="Vf9CM7g99yqfGvzEHTw0bhrjcIfvzYBBhUuRma0rLuQ"; User-Agent: Rocksolid Light X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 X-Rslight-Posting-User: acd0b3e3614eaa6f47211734e4cbca3bfd42bebc X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$nvVrY6BYOTSP5x/lbRj0tOmOZqGrNPe3YFIs99mDLS2UQ5FDZ.5RO On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 19:27:25 +0000, HarryLime wrote: > On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 18:46:01 +0000, Will Dockery wrote: > >> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 13:06:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote: >>> >>> Since MMP is trying to disrupt his psychoanalysis by attemptint to >>> change the subject to whatever he can think of, and since I don't want >>> to let his attempts pass without comment, I'm being forced to open new >>> threads on some of it. >>> From: https://www.novabbs.com/arts/post.php?id=255645 >>> >>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 12:42:11 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MPP) aka >>> "HarryLime" wrote: >>>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 5:55:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote: >>>>>> It seems that Senetto took the lead in attempting to drive Stephan >>>>>> Pickering from the newsgroup though, but that may have been fueled by >>>>>> Senetto's obvious Antisemitism. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for reminding me. It was actually MMP who did that by bringing >>>>> NAMBLA to the group. That triggered Jim, just the way MFH triggered him >>>>> after he was told that it was really about child molesting. >>>> >>>> Why do you lie so much, George? >>> >>> Why do you project so much, MMP? (That's a rhetorical question. As noted >>> in >>> your psychoanalysis, you are playing the preemption game you learned >>> from >>> Peter J. Ross.) >>> >>>> (That's a rhetorical question, as you've already intimated that your >>>> pathological lying stems from you having been abused as a child.) >>> >>> No, Lying Michael: I have never said, or even "intimated" (!) that I was >>> pathological, lying, or >>> "abused as a child". >>> >>>> When Pickles joined the group, he simply posted ongoing entries in a >>>> proposed bibliography of some Magnum Opus he had been working on for >>>> years. To the best of my recollection, this tome-in-progress was an >>>> attempt to tie all of literature, culture, and history together via >>>> Jewish themes explored in Bob Dylan songs. Suffice to say that Pickles >>>> had gone off the deep end decades before. >>> >>> Anyone who engages in deep scholarship on a subject can appear to have >>> "gone off the deep end" to someone who knows nothing of the subject. >>> >>>> I attempted to engage Pickles in several conversations regarding his >>>> posts, but he either ignored them, or spat back some angry, and >>>> impolite, remarks. >>> >>> Similarly anyone who engages in deep scholarship on a subject cannot be >>> expected to appreciate having a total ignoramus on the subject trying to >>> explain it to him. So while I don't condone his impoliteness, I can >>> fully understand it. >>> >>>> Since I didn't relish the idea of getting into a >>>> flamewar with another nutjob (he reminded me of the 50s group's nutter, >>>> "PhillyGuy"), I took to ignoring his posts. Since he only posted once >>>> or twice a week, ignoring him required little to no effort. >>> >>> You handled that well, IMO. "Skip and ignore" the posts and posters >>> you don't like; as long as they stay out of your face, everyone wins. >>> >>>> At some point Jim and Pickles got into a flamewar regarding Ginsberg. I >>>> don't recall who started it. >>> >>> Well, allow me to refresh your memory. Jim and Stephan first got into >>> flamewars after you formed Team Monkey with him and NastyGoon (NG), a >>> Pickering >>> troll. The first thing you did was invite NG into Jim's Sunday Sampler, >>> where >>> they (NG's preferred pronoun) would write trollpoems about Stephan. The >>> result would be Stephan jumping into the Sampler, which would result in >>> JIm >>> flaming him and others (for example, Richard Oakley) also being turned >>> against Jim. I doubt that either Jim nor STephan realized that you were >>> manipulating them for that outcome. >>> >>> After Jim and Stephan became engaged in a prolonged flamewar, both on >>> and >>> off the Sampler, the second thing you did was start flooding the group >>> with >>> a nasty, libellous document that NG had written. >>> >>> The third thing you did, a month or so of that, when Jim and Stephan >>> were thoroughly >>> engaged with each other, you went deep diving outside the group for >>> information on NAMBLA, and found a quotation from Allan Ginsberg >>> ("I have never had sex with anyone under 15" or WTTE), which you began >>> posting here, calling Ginsberg a "pedophile" (or predator); and then >>> when others objected to that (like Stephan, Will, or myself), you began >>> calling those people "pedophiles" as well. >>> >>>> Most likely Jim had condemned Ginsberg as >>>> a child molester, and Pickles (who worshipped Ginsberg) spazzed. >>> >>> That is a fair summary of what I just said, though you left out that you >>> (and Jim) >>> were calling Stephan a child molester as well. No one appreciates being >>> called names like that by cowardly trolls on the internet. >>> >>>> Their >>>> fight had been going for what had become a fairly large-sized thread >>>> when I decided to see what all the bruhaha was about. >>> >>>> (As I said, I'd >>>> been ignoring Pickles' threads, and having no interest in Ginsberg, had >>>> been avoiding this thread as well.) >>>> >>>> When I read Jim's accusations, I google Ginsberg and discovered that >>>> he'd openly discussed having had sex with minors, hinted (as strongly as >>>> possible, considering that statutory rape is a criminal offense) at >>>> having had sex with boys aged 14 or under (he said that was the age when >>>> boys were most desirable), was a member of NAMBLA and had been serving >>>> as that organization's poster boy, publicly championing them and their >>>> agenda (to legalize sex between adults and children). >>> >>> Indeed, Ginsberg and Camille Paglia both "championed" NAMBLA's right to >>> free speech on that contentious subject, and in fact led their >>> counter-parade when they were kicked out of NY's Pride parade. >>> >>>> I was appalled that a public figure was able to be a member of NAMBLA, >>>> and to speak about having had sex with minors, and was somehow not only >>>> a free man, but was still considered a renowned poet and even a cultural >>>> icon. I therefore joined in the argument, backing Jim. >>> >>> Actually, as I remember, you did not merely join in their flame wars, >>> but began disrupting every thread Stephan was on (chiefly with Will), to >>> flame him about it - which of course turned Will against you as well. >>> >>>> I don't know if I was the first to introduce NAMBLA into the group. >>> >>> Not at all. That was Chuck Lysaght years before that. He was roundly >>> spanked by >>> jr sherman, who pointed out that all Ginsberg championed was their (and >>> Ginsberg's) right to talk about the subject, and it died off. AFAIK, you >>> were the first to revive it. >>> >>>> I'm >>>> sure that it must have come up once or twice in the 15 - 20 years of >>>> flame wars before my arrival -- but whatever. I'm pretty sure that I >>>> was the one who'd introduced it into that particular argument. >>>> >>>> In an attempt to defend Ginsberg, Pickles told us that he had been to >>>> NAMBLA meetings, listened to speakers at NAMBLA conventions, and taken >>>> NAMBLA members out to dinner on several occasions, and could attest that >>>> they were all good people. >>> >>> Stephan said a lot of things, on memory and without check, some of which >>> were demonstrably untrue. (For example, his alleged dinners with NAMBLA >>> were said to take place during Dylan's Rolling Thunder tour, which was >>> years before NAMBLA was even founded.) there was no reason to trust >>> his memory of any ot that. >>> >>>> NancyGene quoted posts Pickles had made in another forum, wherein he'd >>>> argued that "legal age" was a meaningless concept, that the majority of >>>> civilizations and cultures had no such age, that incest was not only >>>> common in other cultures, but was a desirable thing. >>> >>> Yes, through all this NG continued to troll Stephan, and posted a lot >>> of scurrilous claims about what he'd said (real, misprepresented, or >>> completely >>> made up). I didn't bother to check them, but (having been trolled by NG >>> myself) I would nt vouch for their accuracy. >>> >>> IIRC, Ginsberg said that "legal age" was an arbitrary concept, which of >>> course it is (just look at the USA, where the age of consent is >>> different from >>> state to state). he did not say that there was no age of cnnsent in >>> other >>> states, just that it varies. (For example, in much of the the Moslem >>> world, >>> the age at which a girl can be married is 9.) As for incest, NG found >>> and >>> quoted a statement Stephan made ridiculing "rape" charge laid aginat a >>> mother >>> who'd had sex with her 17-year-old son. >>> >>>> Pickles not only defended his stance in said quotes, but further ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========