Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Borax Man Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:18:44 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <1irOP.851750$d51.585824@fx46.iad> Injection-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 09:18:44 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="50652f0bc3c8752bc383cecc9877d0a9"; logging-data="311047"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+wL6Vylgll2no2L0hDjpF5ZNwyMaTbucM=" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:UbGJDMeaMtzhCQ2yB0wc3w5S6XI= On 2025-04-27, RonB wrote: > On 2025-04-26, Borax Man wrote: >> On 2025-04-26, chrisv wrote: >>> Borax Man wrote: >>> >>>>What I was referring to problem, isn't limited to software. It seems to >>>>be a Millenial trait in general, or of younger people. That is, they >>>>want to work on what they want to work on, rather than what needs to be >>>>done. People seeing their work as an opportunity to do what they think >>>>is best, rather than what *other* people need. They think that "work" >>>>is just a way they can actualise themselves. Companies bend towards >>>>this, catering to their needs, rather than the companies, or the >>>>customers needs. We, the users, need our software to work. If you want >>>>to work on it, your role is to stop our stuff breaking. >>> >>> I don't know why you think that people can "do what they want" in >>> defiance of market forces. The same with companies "bending" away >>> from their needs or their customers' needs. >>> >>> If they don't do the right things, they will be beaten in the market >>> by someone who is. >>> >> >> Not necessarily. This idea that "market forces" just fixes things runs >> contrary to observed experience. Many companies still turn a profit >> DESPITE massive ineffeciecies and avoidable errors. This is an >> ideological position, not one based on observation of the real world. >> Also, the "market" often moves according to external forces, or it >> doesn't due t intertia, or network effects. ie, you use product X, not >> becaues its good, but because you need to interact with others also >> using product X. Product X can turn to crap, but you can't leave, >> because that is where everyone still is. > > A prime example, Windows. > Yes. Being the default, and the "network effect" has a big impact. I've been "forced" to create accounts with service I don't want to use, because of lack of practical choice. Buy a phone, and you're going to end up either creating a Google or Apple account. I went far without a Google account, but then needed one to use a bonus I got from work. The "market" can't do squat here.