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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Bill Sloman Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information. Date: Fri, 16 May 2025 06:54:22 +1000 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 95 Message-ID: <1005ka9$3ae76$4@dont-email.me> References: <7kmcflxsfb.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <3lj92kth9m1cjjib8peq04tta6fecer0bv@4ax.com> <023a2k1v735395t0crgdfq36acujgn24gq@4ax.com> <80tb2k9ss5hfc1evmas6p3j8iu7r7jih8o@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 22:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b1364c7858883f66cd27867401c59443"; logging-data="3487974"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/gTfl7ZiuWJ5uty4kSnm9/5EsSbY+71VE=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:55RlnGJO1vYu7R2QzuZurLaLAnA= In-Reply-To: <80tb2k9ss5hfc1evmas6p3j8iu7r7jih8o@4ax.com> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250515-4, 15/5/2025), Outbound message Content-Language: en-US On 16/05/2025 12:11 am, john larkin wrote: > On Thu, 15 May 2025 12:29:03 +0200, "Carlos E.R." > wrote: > >> On 2025-05-14 23:37, john larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 14 May 2025 21:10:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2025-05-14 19:19, john larkin wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2025 22:28:23 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2025-05-13 18:14, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>> On 13/05/2025 11:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2025 12:57:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nukes are great, but not if you tear them down. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nukes are remarkably expensive, and depressingly inflexible. Radiation >>>>>>> damage to the structure means that you do have to tear them down after a >>>>>>> few decades of use, and the radioactive waste starts off very >>>>>>> radioactive, and the longer-lived isotopes have to be managed for a few >>>>>>> hundred thousand years. >>>>>> >>>>>> And the investors building the stations do not consider the cost of >>>>>> managing the waste for centuries. They leave that part to the >>>>>> government. In Spain, we don't have any long term nuclear waste storage. >>>>>> I think we rent storage in France, so the waste has to be transported >>>>>> there. We have some storage at each station, a large water pool. >>>>> >>>>> The best thing to do with used fuel rods is reprocess them into more >>>>> fuel. >>>> >>>> Something that is expensive and not every country can do. >>> >>> A couple of very remote places in the world could do that. And we'd >>> get lots of fun isotopes too. Can't leave hot rods in a zillion pools >>> forever. >> >> Transporting nuclear waste long distances is dangerous. > > Not as dangerous as transporting gasoline or chlorine, and we do that > all the time. But neither has created the kind of mess that Chernobyl and Fukushima did. >> Pools are a temporary solution till someone develops a permanent >> solution. Nobody has, in decades. > > Of course we have, but public fear keeps the things from happening. Some of the public are better informed than you are, and less irrationally optimistic >>>>> When that's not feasible, dig a deep hole and dump it in. Or drop >>>>> barrels of junk into an ocean subduction zone. >>>> >>>> That's simply wrong. > > Why? You'll never know. >>>>> It's irrational to store nuclear waste locally. Nuke policy is mostly >>>>> fear driven. And nukes are unpopular in some quarters by people who >>>>> really don't want us to have affordable, safe energy. >>>> >>>> I have a very rational and studied fear of nuclear power. >>> >>> Why? It's very safe when done carefully. >> >> Everybody does it carefully, yet there are accidents with consequences. >> Fukushima, Chernobyl, and many others. And close encounters or near misses. > > The Fukushima and Chernobyl messes were caused by stupid design. Stop > doing that. Chernobyl was actually caused by stupid operation - the design wasn't wonderful, but it didn't create the problem. Fukushima hadn't been designed to cope with a particular sort of tsunami. Any design that gets caught by an unexpected problem looks stupid after the event, but the unexpected is always with us. > > A dam or a grain elevator or a parking garage will kill people if they > are designed by idiots. But they don't kill all that many people when they do fall down. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney