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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.quux.org!news.nk.ca!rocksolid2!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Damon Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2025 20:05:01 -0400 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <7e6fc411ad0573fdfbdb997f6e2d8154fc679036@i2pn2.org> References: <852f89c9196e0261b8156050fea4572fe886933f@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2025 00:05:01 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="241454"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 In-Reply-To: On 4/13/25 7:32 PM, olcott wrote: > On 4/13/2025 4:03 PM, dbush wrote: >> On 4/13/2025 5:00 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 4/13/2025 3:00 PM, dbush wrote: >>>> On 4/13/2025 3:59 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 4/13/2025 3:54 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>> Am Fri, 11 Apr 2025 10:56:32 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>> On 4/11/2025 3:24 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/04/2025 08:57, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No proof of this principle has been shown so its use is not valid. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No proof of Peano's axioms or Euclid's fifth postulate has been >>>>>>>> shown. >>>>>>>> That doesn't mean we can't use them. >>>>>>>> Mr Olcott can have his principle if he likes, but only by EITHER >>>>>>>> proving it (which, as you say, he has not yet done) OR by taking >>>>>>>> it as >>>>>>>> axiomatic, leaving the world of mainstream computer science >>>>>>>> behind him, >>>>>>>> constructing his own computational 'geometry' so to speak, and >>>>>>>> abandoning any claim to having overturned the Halting Problem. >>>>>>>> Navel >>>>>>>> contemplation beckons. >>>>>>>> Axioms are all very well, and he's free to invent as many as he >>>>>>>> wishes, >>>>>>>> but nobody else is obliged to accept them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Simulating termination analyzer Principle* >>>>>>> It is always correct for any simulating termination analyzer to stop >>>>>>> simulating and reject any input that would otherwise prevent its own >>>>>>> termination. >>>>>> Sure. Why doesn’t the STA simulate itself rejecting its input? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Because that is a STUPID idea and categorically impossible >>>>> because the outermost HHH sees its needs to stop simulating >>>>> before any inner HHH can possibly see this. >>>>> >>>> >>>> In other words, you agree that Linz and others are correct that no H >>>> exists that satisfies these requirements: >>>> >>>> >>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of >>>> instructions) X described as with input Y: >>>> >>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes >>>> the following mapping: >>>> >>>> (,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly >>>> (,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed >>>> directly >>>> >>> >>> No stupid! Those freaking requirements are wrong >> >> In other words, you have no interest in something that would make all >> truth provable. >> > > It will remain forever impossible to prove that five minutes > ago ever existed. This is empirical truth mislabeled as synthetic truth. > > Semantic truth poorly labeled as analytic truth is the only > truth that is either provable else untrue. It is {provable} > on the basis of semantic connections to expressions that are > stipulated as true. > In other words, you are admitting that you don't understand how Formal Logic works, but are confused by the confusions in the broader concepts of Philosophy that try to relate logic to reality.