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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.xs3.de!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Wistar Symposium "Mathematical Challenge to Neo-Darwinism". Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2024 12:45:09 -0400 Organization: Public Usenet Newsgroup Access Lines: 68 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <qk17O.12412$gn%7.8470@fx12.iad> References: <MUn6O.847$W2K4.435@fx38.iad> <v3d6nf$2bmpj$1@dont-email.me> <LTK6O.5077$gn%7.4967@fx12.iad> <5ogn5j5d7953b3s7u7gqd7v7hem2vmmao8@4ax.com> <d089debc-a3d8-4bdb-8839-780af03e5050@gmail.com> <qdjn5j1gu4304glklgc6hejrufm6bt1m6l@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="30214"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 13.4; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.18.2 To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Return-Path: <news-admin@admin.omicronmedia.com> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 50D3D229872; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 12:45:12 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20114229870 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 12:45:10 -0400 (EDT) id 2445C7D12F; Sun, 2 Jun 2024 16:45:12 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay.zaccari.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC237D12E for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sun, 2 Jun 2024 16:45:12 +0000 (UTC) by nntpmail01.iad.omicronmedia.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59F20E16C6 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sun, 2 Jun 2024 16:45:11 +0000 (UTC) id 1E6AE1CC01EA; Sun, 2 Jun 2024 16:45:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Path: fx12.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail In-Reply-To: <qdjn5j1gu4304glklgc6hejrufm6bt1m6l@4ax.com> X-Original-Complaints-To: abuse@newsgroups-download.com X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2024 16:45:10 UTC Bytes: 5608 Bob Casanova wrote: > On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 18:39:35 -0700, the following appeared in > talk.origins, posted by erik simpson > <eastside.erik@gmail.com>: > >> On 6/1/24 5:56 PM, El Kabong wrote: >>> Ron Dean wrote: >>> >>>> We've discussed this before. I think originally the genetic code was >>>> robust, but over time due to the 2/ND law and missed errors in copying, >>>> the robustness declined and continues to decline. This I >>>> think was anticipated from the beginning of the genetic code and several >>>> proofreading and repair machines were implanted into the code. But even >>>> these proofreading and repair systems are subject to errors over time. >>>> However, they still catch overwhelming numbers of mutations and corrects >>>> them, but not all. The evidence I think supports this. Still, each >>>> generation inherits the mutations from previous generations and develops >>>> new mutations, all of which is passed on down. At some distant time the >>>> genetic code in each species becomes increasingly less robust until >>>> reproduction >>>> ceases and we see this in many extinctions as recorded in the fossil >>>> record. >>> >>> Your invocation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a >>> common creationist diversion. It started as a deliberate >>> misrepresentation, and spread among the ignoratti such as >>> yourself. >>> >>> The earth is awash in exergy. It has always been there >>> for the taking. The 2nd law has naught to do with >>> genetic drift. Extinction almost always happens due to >>> environment & competition, humans included. >>> >>> You should ask an engineer to explain entropy and the 2nd >>> Law to you. >>> >>> >>>> If one looks at the fossil record with _no_ biases, I think what we find >>>> is the abrupt appearance of most (if not all) species in the strata, >>>> then long periods of stasis followed by sudden disappearance. >>>> I think Dr Stephen J. Gould was an honest scientist who voiced what was >>>> actually observed in the fossil record without bias or an overriding >>>> commitment to convention. >>> >>> So Gould was an IDer. Who knew? >>> >> Now, now. Gould wasn't/isn't the last word of authority, especially >> since he's been gone many years now, but his opinion that "replaying >> life's tape" would produce nothing like what we see is the antithesis of >> intelligent design. Ron's misunderstanding of almost everything about >> evolutionary biology (Gould included) is becoming legendary. He claims >> to be an engineer, but what kind? >> > Sanitation? No competent *actual* engineer who understands > thermodynamics would make the sort of egregious errors > regarding the scope and application of the 2nd Law shown > above. > You don't know what your "talking" about. When something unwinds, runs down or becomes disordered, this is increasing entropy, there is no energy for work; which is in accordance with the 2/nd law. >> Entropy in a system is a measure of the _unavailable_ energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is a a measure of the system's disorder, that is a property of the system's state, and that varies directly with any reversible change in heat in the system: the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_entropy