Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:57:07 -0400
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Subject: Re: Inconvenient lefties
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References: <utks3h$35980$1@dont-email.me> <17c2951988fe8093$63098$3121036$c0d58a68@news.newsdemon.com> <uuj8q0$3rjq1$2@dont-email.me> <17c2cf26c4db72b2$7802$1100308$44d50e60@news.newsdemon.com> <uXidnTi_y4kvBpD7nZ2dnZfqn_EAAAAA@giganews.com> <17c2e3252df08033$63111$3121036$c0d58a68@news.newsdemon.com> <6IWdnbOgZM0be5D7nZ2dnZfqnPcAAAAA@giganews.com> <17c31e036847f89d$33224$111488$4ed50460@news.newsdemon.com> <atropos-04B866.12351704042024@news.giganews.com> <17c333d2cd5539d8$169757$3716115$2d54864@news.newsdemon.com> <atropos-C37FD4.18054404042024@news.giganews.com> <17c3425456280d71$51966$3384359$c2d58868@news.newsdemon.com> <atropos-58BFDC.19572804042024@news.giganews.com> <17c37b6c29057425$4757$3037545$10d55a65@news.newsdemon.com> <25Ccnb-dnerIwo37nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>
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From: moviePig <never@nothere.com>
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On 4/5/2024 4:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> moviePig <never@nothere.com> wrote:
>> On 4/4/2024 10:58 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <17c3425456280d71$51966$3384359$c2d58868@news.newsdemon.com>,
>>> moviePig <never@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/4/2024 9:06 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <17c333d2cd5539d8$169757$3716115$2d54864@news.newsdemon.com>,
>>>>> moviePig <never@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/4/2024 3:35 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <17c31e036847f89d$33224$111488$4ed50460@news.newsdemon.com>,
>>>>>>> moviePig <never@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> moviePig <never@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 2:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2024 at 8:36:11 AM PDT, "moviePig" <never@nothere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:50 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you own it, you can burn it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But not at a gay-pride march under laws against hate speech.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are no laws against hate speech in the United States. If any
>>>>>>>>>>> legislature should pass such a law, it would be unconstitutional.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...until some future SCOTUS rules differently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, any law can be repealed, decision overturned, and constitution
>>>>>>>>> amended, but your statement wasn't that of a future wish but as a
>>>>>>>>> (fallacious) recitation of the status quo.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I "recited" nothing. I (deliberately) posed a hypothetical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You didn't indicate at all that it was a hypothetical. You made the
>>>>>>> simple statement, in response to Effa saying that if you own (a rainbow
>>>>>>> flag) you can burn it, "but not at a gay-pride march under laws against
>>>>>>> hate speech".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where's the hypothetical there? Looks like it's a statement of what you
>>>>>>> believe to be the status quo of American law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I said (and say) that such confrontational flag-burning is what a law
>>>>>> against hate speech prohibits.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, and we don't have laws against hate speech because they're
>>>>> unconstitutional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hate speech is protected 1st Amendment speech.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't cite a particular instance because I didn't know of any -- though
>>>>>> it now seems I might've found some in Canadian law.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, of course. Canadia has neither a constitution nor a 1st Amendment,
>>>>> so its government can and does infringe on their freedom to speak with
>>>>> appalling regularity. Not only can the Canadidian government prohibit
>>>>> entire categories of speech altogether, it's free to take sides, to
>>>>> create double standards where some speech and protests are allowed
>>>>> (e.g., pro-Hamas) and other are brutally repressed (e.g., truckers)
>>>>> based on whether the government agrees with and approves of the speaker
>>>>> or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regardless, the point I've always defended is that 'hate speech' is as
>>>>>> much of an identifiable phenomenon as, say, pornography, and imo not
>>>>>> necessarily entitled *in principle* to "free speech" protections.
>>>>>
>>>>> And according to 200+ years of 1st Amendment jurisprudence, you'd be
>>>>> wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, anytime one disagrees with a published opinion, one is -- according
>>>> to that published opinion -- "wrong".
>>>
>>> Yes, when that opinion defines the law of the nation, making directly
>>> contradictory claims in Usenet posts does make you wrong.
>>
>> What *opinion* -- of anything anywhere -- can't be contradicted?  Fyi,
>> *that* would be a violation of 'free speech'...
> 
> No one's muzzling or prohibiting you from making contradictory statements
> regarding the SCOTUS ruling. However, your right to free speech doesn't
> immunize you from being wrong or bar others from pointing out your
> wrongness.

....where "wrongness" means "of differing opinion".