Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 04:00:33 -0500
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Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy
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References: <9kednTImBeTyi977nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <v25n9o$1nnt0$3@dont-email.me> <atropos-6FB24F.13095916052024@news.giganews.com> <ci2e4jpl9ntbi5tj9tduedif600u0o9p4r@4ax.com> <20240517214352.0000779c@example.com> <qiWdnW5OTLRytNX7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me> <atropos-CF6646.10480418052024@news.giganews.com> <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me> <atropos-C071E2.13373018052024@news.giganews.com> <v2bcpo$30g9a$4@dont-email.me> <20240518200826.00006faf@example.com> <v2brab$36n2k$1@dont-email.me> <20240519162832.00005523@example.com> <v2duqu$3jjr2$1@dont-email.me> <PL2dnWOi7pc0Ftf7nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> <v2foco$1mk4$1@dont-email.me> <atropos-CBDB9B.11282220052024@news.giganews.com> <v2g6ot$4mgb$1@dont-email.me> <atropos-A67F91.13080920052024@news.giganews.com> <v2l1fj$17qtm$1@dont-email.me>
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On 5/22/24 10:03 AM, FPP wrote:
> On 5/20/24 4:08 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> In article <v2g6ot$4mgb$1@dont-email.me>, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/20/2024 2:28 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> In article <v2foco$1mk4$1@dont-email.me>, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/19/2024 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400
>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400
>>>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-readers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means it's a racist form of white supremacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are of Asian origin...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> musicians and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screens so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> white or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to deny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> riots,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whites) is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play the music.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elimination of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get rid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonder why that is?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> action'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whitey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cheerlead for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensembles on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs 'fixing'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> artificially bifurcate society.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
>>>>>>>>>>>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they
>>>>>>>>>>>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance
>>>>>>>>>>>> groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
>>>>>>>>>>>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both 
>>>>>>>>>>>> cases,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> but a
>>>>>>>>>>>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both 
>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations
>>>>>>>>>>>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> job.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that
>>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be fixed?
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