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Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2024 22:41:25 -0400
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Subject: Re: Do you condemn Hamas?
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On 6/8/2024 4:30 PM, john larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 16:08:51 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 6/8/2024 3:55 PM, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 19:30:11 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/8/24 16:45, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 09:54:42 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>>>> <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 10:43:15 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 01:37, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 23:57:54 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/24 23:11, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/24 16:49, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, Hamas makes sense. They send Jews to hell because they
>>>>>>>>>>>> are heretics, and send Muslims to heaven to be blessed martyrs. So
>>>>>>>>>>>> for Hamas, killing is always win-win.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Some kind of sense, given that there is neither heaven, nor hell.
>>>>>>>>>>> Religion, islam in particular, is only pernicious brainwashing.
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no afterlife. There is only this life. Don't waste it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Learn how to do soul travel. It is the most important thing to do
>>>>>>>>>> this lifetime. It will give you absolute proof there is life past
>>>>>>>>>> this one,
>>>>>>>>>> and that you are immortal.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know what soul travel is, but I'm sure there is no afterlife,
>>>>>>>>> just as there was no forelife. There is no soul. My existence is the
>>>>>>>>> result of an uninterrupted sequence of incredibly improbable events,
>>>>>>>>> going back billions of years into the past, and I will cease to exist,
>>>>>>>>> never to come back,
>>>>>>>>> when some essential part of my body fails.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While I'm certainly not looking forward to dying, I'm not afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being dead. The need to believe in an afterlife is just another of
>>>>>>>>> those weird religious ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, I'm not religious at all but am convinced there's an after-life.
>>>>>>>> And that's not just so I can feel all warm and fuzzy. I actually find
>>>>>>>> the prospect deeply concerning. I'd much rather be like you in outlook!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How did you come to be convinced of the existence of an afterlife,
>>>>>>> and what kind of experience do you expect to have?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm afraid that's *way* too big and off-topic a subject for expansion on
>>>>>> this forum!
>>>>>
>>>>> Designing electronics has obviously suggestions of quantum
>>>>> consciousness, and even Einstein thought that QM was spooky.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't give up on miracles quite yet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have referred to quantum effects in the brain many
>>>> times. In as far as the brain is a chemical machine, and
>>>> that chemistry is basically a manifestation of quantum
>>>> mechanics, I agree. In practice, QM is just a level too
>>>> deep in the abstraction stack. Somehow I believe that
>>>> that is not how you see it. Would you elaborate?
>>>>
>>>
>>> DNA and RNA and other things aren't flat linear molecules as the
>>> cartoons suggest. They are twisted and tangled into writhing balls. So
>>> any sequence gets continuously and randomly rubbed against the rest of
>>> the string. That's a quantum cross-correlation machine.
>>>
>>>> Much of technology, electronics in particular, is a miracle,
>>>> though not in the mystical or religious sense.
>>>
>>> I like the Barrie Gilbert essay, "Where do little circuits come from?"
>>>
>>> They are all out there in the infinite solution space, and it's hard
>>> to explore an infinite space serially.
>>>
>>> There's nothing mystical about a universe that obviously works.
>>>
>>
>> The "RNA world" hypothesis is that RNA is a very special molecule, the
>> "killer app" that bootstrapped life.
> 
> There are lots of people who want that to be true (never mind the
> details) because they don't want to admit that other things might be
> true.
> 
> Nature has a rude habit of doing things that scientists didn't approve
> of.
> 

I tend to be of the opinion that actionable scientific theories of 
either how to get life to bootstrap from non-life in a lab environment, 
or how to make a machine emulate the significantly human qualities of a 
mind, will remain frustratingly elusive for the foreseeable future.