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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy
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In article <v2g6ot$4mgb$1@dont-email.me>, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> 
wrote:

> On 5/20/2024 2:28 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <v2foco$1mk4$1@dont-email.me>, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> On 5/19/2024 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400
> >>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400
> >>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In article <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> In article <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-readers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means it's a racist form of white supremacy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are of Asian origin...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> play the music.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonder why that is?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action'
> >>>>>>>>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your
> >>>>>>>>>>>> view?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class
> >>>>>>>>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
> >>>>>>>>>>> whitey.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
> >>>>>>>>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised
> >>>>>>>>>>> you cheerlead for it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and
> >>>>>>>>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on
> >>>>>>>>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how
> >>>>>>>>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that
> >>>>>>>>>>> needs 'fixing'.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
> >>>>>>>>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
> >>>>>>>>>> artificially bifurcate society.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
> >>>>>>>>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they
> >>>>>>>>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance
> >>>>>>>>> groups.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
> >>>>>>>>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases,
> >>>>>>>>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a
> >>>>>>>>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations
> >>>>>>>>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job.
> >>>>>>>>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that
> >>>>>>>>> needs to be fixed?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given
> >>>>>>>> instance.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to
> >>>>>>> defend the indefensible.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Let me help you out:  The 'general policy' is to promote blacks,
> >>>>>> disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to
> >>>>>> change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such
> >>>>>> instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it
> >>>>>>> had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and
> >>>>>>> viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would
> >>>>>>> be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see
> >>>>>>> themselves represented. If my reasoning is correct, the team owners
> >>>>>>> are walking away from extra income by not having more white players
> >>>>>>> - and more Asians as well, who might also be basketball fans.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Uh, no, not since Jackie Robinson.  Today, teams make money by
> >>>>>> winning.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> But orchestras must prioritize hiring on the basis of skin colour even
> >>>>> if it reduces the quality of the orchestra and therefore hurts ticket
> >>>>> sales, right?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, competing priorities is a zero-sum game --  a mathematical fact.
> >>>> And, anyone who sees no value to black faces in major orchestras won't
> >>>> be pleased at that increased emphasis.
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