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From: john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Exploding pagers
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2024 14:06:39 -0700
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On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:56:01 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>> <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
>>>>>>> larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
>>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
>>>>>>>>> booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
>>>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
>>>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
>>>>>>>>> would be expected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
>>>>>>>>> *designed*.
>>>>>>>>>   Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
>>>>>>>>>   pagers
>>>>>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
>>>>>>>>> like explosives.  Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
>>>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
>>>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
>>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
>>>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
>>>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
>>>>>>> So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
>>>>>>> make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
>>>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
>>>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
>>>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
>>>>>> sufficiently hot.
>>>>>
>>>>> They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive.  There are
>>>>> detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
>>>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
>>>>> something more powerful.
>>>>
>>>> Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
>>>> could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
>>>> specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot
>>>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.
>
>Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive
>
>That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if 
>it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it 
>though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos.
>
>A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor. 
>Weight really matters in a portable device.
>
>>> PETN heated by a laser.
>>>
>>> .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948>
>>>
>>> Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion
>> 
>> But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
>> that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
>> temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
>> battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
>> does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
>> is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
>> but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
>> pursue the matter ad infinitum.
>
>Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no 
>problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament 
>coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was 
>almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was 
>cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives.
>
>There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat.
>
>I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to 
>do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas 
>hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle.

A great opportunity to make more martyrs.