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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2024 08:52:27 -0500
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On 4/28/2024 8:19 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 4/28/24 8:56 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/28/2024 3:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-28 00:17:48 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
>>>
>>> One should not that "D simulated by H" is not the same as
>>> "simulation of D by H". The message below seems to be more
>>> about the latter than the former. In any case, it is more
>>> about the properties of H than about the properties of D.
>>>
>>
>> D specifies what is essentially infinite recursion to H.
>> Several people agreed that D simulated by H cannot possibly
>> reach past its own line 03 no matter what H does.
> 
> Nope, it is only that if H fails to be a decider.
> 

*We don't make this leap of logic. I never used the term decider*
*We don't make this leap of logic. I never used the term decider*
*We don't make this leap of logic. I never used the term decider*
*We don't make this leap of logic. I never used the term decider*

We are only concerned with the behavior of a pair of C functions.
Unless I require that reviewers proceed through every slight nuance
of details of my reasoning they simply ignore my words and leap to
the conclusion that I must be wrong.

*It will be increasingly more clear that your rebuttals are baseless*
*It will be increasingly more clear that your rebuttals are baseless*
*It will be increasingly more clear that your rebuttals are baseless*

> Since you claim H to be a decider, D can not have infinite recursion, 
> because H must return in finite time.
> 
> Yes, we get two different, and contradictory, sets of results depending 
> on which facts we look at. The cause of this is the principle of 
> explosion, that somewhere in our setup we have a false premise, and that 
> turns out to be that there can exist an H that can correctly determine 
> the halting status of its input, or in particular, the input built by 
> this formula.
> 
>>
>>>> The x86utm operating system based on an open source x86 emulator.
>>>> This system enables one C function to execute another C function
>>>> in debug step mode. When H simulates D it creates a separate process
>>>> context for D with its own memory, stack and virtual registers. H
>>>> is able to simulate D simulating itself, thus the only limit to
>>>> recursive simulations is RAM.
>>>>
>>>> // The following is written in C
>>>> //
>>>> 01 typedef int (*ptr)(); // pointer to int function
>>>> 02 int H(ptr x, ptr y)    // uses x86 emulator to simulate its input
>>>> 03
>>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>>> 05 {
>>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>>> 10 }
>>>> 11
>>>> 12 void main()
>>>> 13 {
>>>> 14   D(D);
>>>> 15 }
>>>>
>>>> Execution Trace
>>>> Line 14: main() invokes D(D)
>>>>
>>>> keeps repeating (unless aborted)
>>>> Line 06: simulated D(D) invokes simulated H(D,D) that simulates D(D)
>>>>
>>>> Simulation invariant
>>>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 09.
>>>>
>>>> Is it dead obvious to everyone here when examining the execution
>>>> trace of lines 14 and 06 above that D correctly simulated by H cannot
>>>> possibly terminate normally by reaching its own line 09?
>>>
>>>
>>
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer