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From: "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: smart people doing stupid things
Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 18:49:14 -0400
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"Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message 
news:v2b845$2vo5o$2@dont-email.me...
> On 5/18/2024 7:18 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:v29fji$2l9d8$2@dont-email.me...
>>> On 5/17/2024 9:49 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>> "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:v29bqi$14iv$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
>>>>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:v29aso$2kjfs$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> On 5/17/2024 7:11 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>>>>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:v28rap$2e811$3@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>> On 5/17/2024 1:43 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Not sure how he managed to say master debaters that many times 
>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>> seemingly keeping a straight face but it reminds me of this:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.learningmethods.com/downloads/pdf/james.alcock--the.belief.engine.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One thing which bothers me about AI is that if it's like us but 
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> intelligent than us then...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 'I' in AI doesn't refer to the same sense of "intelligence" 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> you are imagining.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Strange that you could know what I was imagining.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People are invariably mislead by thinking that there is 
>>>>>> "intelligence"
>>>>>> involved in the technology.  If there is intelligence, then there
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> be *reason*, right?  If there is reason, then I should be able to
>>>>>> inquire
>>>>>> as to what, specifically, those reasons were for any 
>>>>>> "decision"/choice
>>>>>> that is made.
>>>>
>>>> What is a decision?
>>>
>>> Any option to take one fork vs. another.
>>
>> So a decision is a decision.
>
> A decision is a choice.  A srategy is HOW you make that choice.
>
>> Shouldn't a decision be that which causes a specific fork to be chosen?
>
> Why?  I choose to eat pie.  The reasoning behind the choice may be
> as banal as "because it's already partially eaten and will spoil if
> not consumed soon" or "because that is what my body craves at this moment"
> or "because I want to remove that item from the refrigerator to make room
> for some other item recently acquired".
>
>> In other words the current state of a system leads it to produce a 
>> specific
>> future state?
>
> That defines a strategic goal.  Choices (decisions) are made all the time.
> Their *consequences* are often not considered in the process!

In that case I'm not seeing anything different between decisions, goals and 
choices made by a human brain and those made by an AI system.
But what started this was "People are invariably mislead by thinking that 
there is "intelligence" involved in the technology".

So perhaps I should be asking what is intelligence? And can a computer have 
it?
Was the computer which created these videos intelligent?
https://openai.com/index/sora/
Plenty of decisions and choices must have been made and I don't see anything 
in the "Historical footage of California during the gold rush" which says 
it's not a drone flying over a set made for a movie.
The goal was to produce the requested video.
Some of the other videos do scream AI but that may not be the case in a year 
or two.
In any case the human imagination is just as capable of imagining a scene 
with tiny red pandas as it is of imagining a scene which could exist in 
reality.
Did the creation of these videos require intelligence?
What exactly IS intelligence?
I might also ask what is a reason?

>
>> I don't claim to know what a decision is but I think it's interesting 
>> that
>> it seems to be one of those questions everyone knows the answer to until
>> they're asked.
>
>