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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 18:35:09 -0400
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On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400
> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400
>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>    
>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>     moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>       
>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>      moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino"
>>>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700
>>>>>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>>>>       On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701
>>>>>>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>       >Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
>>>>>>>>>>>       >sight-readers,
>>>>>>>>>>>       >that means it's a racist form of white supremacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>       >
>>>>>>>>>>>       >(Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
>>>>>>>>>>>       >something.)
>>>>>>>>>>>       >
>>>>>>>>>>>       ><rolls eyes>
>>>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>       I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black
>>>>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days
>>>>>>>>>>>       are of Asian origin...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that
>>>>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and
>>>>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
>>>>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so
>>>>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see
>>>>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or
>>>>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
>>>>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply
>>>>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because
>>>>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
>>>>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure
>>>>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
>>>>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way
>>>>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was
>>>>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be
>>>>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny
>>>>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots,
>>>>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be
>>>>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
>>>>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most
>>>>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
>>>>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and
>>>>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are,
>>>>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability
>>>>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
>>>>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
>>>>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is
>>>>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to
>>>>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian.
>>>>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available
>>>>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras
>>>>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
>>>>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively
>>>>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
>>>>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to
>>>>>>>>> play the music.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of
>>>>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
>>>>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid
>>>>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too
>>>>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to
>>>>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any
>>>>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
>>>>>>>>> Wonder why that is?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action'
>>>>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your
>>>>>>>> view?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class
>>>>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
>>>>>>> whitey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
>>>>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised
>>>>>>> you cheerlead for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and
>>>>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on
>>>>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how
>>>>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that
>>>>>>> needs 'fixing'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
>>>>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
>>>>>> artificially bifurcate society.
>>>>>
>>>>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
>>>>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they
>>>>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance
>>>>> groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
>>>>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases,
>>>>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a
>>>>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?
>>>>>
>>>>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations
>>>>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job.
>>>>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that
>>>>> needs to be fixed?
>>>>
>>>> Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given
>>>> instance.
>>>>   
>>> Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to
>>> defend the indefensible.
>>
>> Let me help you out:  The 'general policy' is to promote blacks,
>> disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to
>> change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such
>> instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust".
>>
> And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras?
>>
>>>> Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals.
>>>>   
>>> Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it
>>> had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and
>>> viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would
>>> be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see
>>> themselves represented. If my reasoning is correct, the team owners
>>> are walking away from extra income by not having more white players
>>> - and more Asians as well, who might also be basketball fans.
>>
>> Uh, no, not since Jackie Robinson.  Today, teams make money by
>> winning.
>>
> But orchestras must prioritize hiring on the basis of skin colour even
> if it reduces the quality of the orchestra and therefore hurts ticket
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