Deutsch   English   Français   Italiano  
<v39bp7$1jqjp$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article

Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions
Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 10:01:42 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <v39bp7$1jqjp$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v2l828$18v7f$1@dont-email.me>
 <00297443-2fee-48d4-81a0-9ff6ae6481e4@gmail.com>
 <v2lji1$1bbcp$1@dont-email.me> <87msoh5uh6.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
 <f08d2c9f-5c2e-495d-b0bd-3f71bd301432@gmail.com>
 <v2nbp4$1o9h6$1@dont-email.me> <v2ng4n$1p3o2$1@dont-email.me>
 <87y18047jk.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
 <87msoe1xxo.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v2sh19$2rle2$2@dont-email.me>
 <87ikz11osy.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v2v59g$3cr0f$1@dont-email.me>
 <20240528144118.00002012@yahoo.com> <v34odg$kh7a$1@dont-email.me>
 <20240528185624.00002494@yahoo.com> <v359f1$nknu$1@dont-email.me>
 <20240528232315.00006a58@yahoo.com> <v35qrg$qhnf$1@dont-email.me>
 <v36p6t$12k77$1@dont-email.me> <20240529130818.000070bf@yahoo.com>
 <v375v6$14n4i$1@dont-email.me> <v37l0s$17712$3@dont-email.me>
 <v37qs5$18ai5$1@dont-email.me> <20240529225905.000041ec@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 10:01:43 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="fdfefad547a4bfd715e4868508bad851";
	logging-data="1698425"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18WCXU9L0QQ75SW5mi+Z1Ykk8cH6nCMDpM="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/102.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:d3NGIYypOrzT9Z3yuhpX3IyX3tA=
In-Reply-To: <20240529225905.000041ec@yahoo.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
Bytes: 4855

On 29/05/2024 21:59, Michael S wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 14:07:00 -0400
> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> 
>> On 29/05/2024 18:27, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>> On 29/05/2024 13:10, David Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't the cheapest available, and 64 GB memory (and 4 TB SSD)
>>>> don't come free.  (And I buy these bare-bones.  Machines with
>>>> Windows "pre-installed" are often cheaper because they are
>>>> sponsored by the junk-ware and ad-ware forced on unsuspecting
>>>> users.)
>>> Yes, I got a job at Cambridge which didn't work out (Cantab dons,
>>> much less tolerant people then their counterparts at another
>>> university, but that's another story). And I was given a brand new
>>> Windows machine, and told that we had to use Linux. So I installed
>>> a Linux version which ran on top of Windows. No good, I was told.
>>> Might cause problems with that "interesting" set up. ...
>>
>> They're quite right in that regard, as I can testify from personal
>> experience.
>>
>>> ... So I had to scrub a brand new version of Windows.
>>> It felt like the most extravagant waste.
>>
>> Keep in mind that, as David pointed out, the "waste" was probably
>> negative. You got a better price on the machine than you would have
>> otherwise, and erasing that malware gave you more space to put useful
>> stuff on your machine.
> 
> May be, for laptps that is true. But for mini-PCs it is very different.
> Windows is surprisingly expensive in this case. OEM license is sold for
> ~75% of retail license price.
> 
> 

The cheapest mini PC's from our main supplier all come with Windows 
(excluding a few "thin client" type systems - I am thinking of Intel NUC 
class of systems).  In fact, I think /all/ the pre-built ones have 
Windows.  But if you buy bare-bones - no RAM or SSD - there is no OS. 
This seems to be extremely common, right from the manufacturers.

And no, companies like Intel or ASUS don't pay anything close to 75% of 
the retail price for the Windows license they install.  I took a quick 
check on our supplier's site - the cheapest ASUS Mini PC with Windows 11 
Pro is only 20% more than a stand-alone Windows 11 Pro license.  And 
these ASUS machines don't actually come with much sponsored nonsense 
software, IME.


I prefer to buy these machines bare-bones because they never have the 
memory or SSD sizes that I want, so I have to replace these anyway.

I'd buy laptops bare-bones too (unless I needed Windows on it), but few 
places sell bare-bones laptops.  Actually, it's probably 15-20 years 
since I last bought a laptop, so maybe my opinions there are not very 
relevant!  (I typically use hand-me-downs from sales folk - when their 
machines get too slow from clogged up Windows, they buy new ones.  I 
upgrade the memory, wipe the disk and install Linux, and the machine is 
better than it was when new.)