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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: DD correctly simulated by HH cannot possible halt --- Try to
 prove otherwise --- x86 DD
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 21:51:02 +0200
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Op 03.jun.2024 om 14:42 schreef olcott:
> On 6/3/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/2/24 11:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2024 10:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/2/24 10:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE BEHAVIOR THAT THE INPUT SPECIFIES.
>>>>> That you did get confused by the Linz text proves that you do
>>>>> get confused. Previously it looked just like willful deception.
>>>>
>>>> Which is, for a Halt Decider, exactly and only the behavior of the 
>>>> Turing Machine the input describes.
>>>>
>>>> PERIOD.
>>>>
>>>> Anything else is just a LIE.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't seem to understand that you can't just "redefine" the 
>>>>>> system to meet your desires.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS.
>>>>> DD correctly simulated by HH specifies NON-HALTING.
>>>>
>>>> No, Running DD(DD) and seeing that it will never, after an unbounded 
>>>> number of steps, indicate it is non-halting.
>>>>
>>>> DEFINITION.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS.
>>>>> DD correctly simulated by HH specifies NON-HALTING.
>>>>
>>>> Right, and the input is a representation of a Turing Machine and its 
>>>> input, whose behavior the decider is to decide on.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS.
>>>>> DD correctly simulated by HH specifies NON-HALTING.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And that is the machine the input describes.
>>>>
>>>> ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST A LIE.
>>>>
>>>>> You can't get away with implicitly saying that you
>>>>> just don't "believe in" UTMs.
>>>>
>>>> I do, and a UTM is DEFINED as a machine that exactly reproduces the 
>>>> behavior of the machine described by its input.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *If that was true then you prove that this statement is false*
>>> *We can see that the following DD cannot possibly halt when*
>>> *correctly simulated by every HH that can possibly exist*
>>
>> I have.
>>
>> You keep of forgetting that the phrase "DD cannot possibly halt" means, 
> 
> This eliminates the problem of you dishonestly removing context
> *DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT*
> *DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT*
> *DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT*

Because *HH* correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES 
NOT HALT

> 
> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
> 00       int HH(ptr p, ptr i);
> 01       int DD(ptr p)
> 02       {
> 03         int Halt_Status = HH(p, p);
> 04         if (Halt_Status)
> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
> 06         return Halt_Status;
> 07       }
> 
> _DD()
> [00001c22] 55         push ebp
> [00001c23] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> [00001c25] 51         push ecx
> [00001c26] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001c29] 50         push eax        ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001c2d] 51         push ecx        ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342   ; call HH
> [00001c33] 83c408     add esp,+08
> [00001c36] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00001c39] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00001c3d] 7402       jz 00001c41
> [00001c3f] ebfe       jmp 00001c3f
> [00001c41] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
> [00001c44] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
> [00001c46] 5d         pop ebp
> [00001c47] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47]
> 

-- 
Paradoxes in the relation between Creator and creature.
<http://www.wirholt.nl/English>.