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From: Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Readercon code of conduct
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 21:28:11 -0000 (UTC)
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D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> 
>> On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>> Bernard Peek  <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
>>>>>>> mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
>>>>>>> it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
>>>>>>> feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
>>>>>>> measured in hours.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
>>>>>> taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
>>>>>> The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
>>>>>> human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
>>>>>> to ignore.  The rest of the world needs to recognize that
>>>>>> totalitarian despots lie.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse 
>>>>> multiple times given how many fake scares we would have.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some 
>>>>> recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing 
>>>>> that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed 
>>>>> completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =)
>>>> 
>>>> I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info)
>>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
>>>> 
>>>> Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million
>>>> US      3,642
>>>> 
>>>> But Sweden is hardly the best.
>>>> 
>>>> France:  2,556 (fierce lockdown there)
>>>> Germany: 2,182 (ditto)
>>>> Ireland: 1,891
>>>> Norway:  1,024
>>>> 
>>>> nor is the US the worst:
>>>> Bulgaria: 5,661
>>>> Hungary:  5,106
>>>> 
>>>> Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various
>>>> strategies, what worked, what didn't.
>>>> 
>>>> If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the
>>>> US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have
>>>> double the death rate of Norway?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> pt
>>> 
>>> Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk.
>> 
>> There's a venerable method of evading discussion
>> of a questionable Internet claim by refusing
>> discussion unless some form of evidence which is
>> thought difficult to obtain is first supplied.
>> 
>> I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death
>> rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better?
>> 
>> At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain
>> excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate:
>> 
>> https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
>> 
>> On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions',
>> and  you can compare countries against each other.
>> 
>> I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's
>> here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc
>> 
>> Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared
>> to Norway, in the early  part of the pandemic. Norway
>> has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly
>> closely.
>> 
>> So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden
>> that saved so many lives?
>> 
>> Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden
>> has a lot more excess deaths than the US.
>> 
>> pt
> 
> Let me show you this instead...
> 
> https://www.europaportalen.se/2023/03/sverige-hade-lagsta-overdodligheten-under-coronapandemin-i-eu
> 
> The graph shows the percentage change between the average number of deaths 
> per year for 2017-2019 and the average for 2020-2022.

Again, I ask you, what did  Norway do right, and Sweden do wrong, to have
more
than twice the deaths per,population?

Pt