Path: ...!local-3.nntp.ord.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:32:37 +0000
From: John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Heating for fusion, Why toast plasma when you can microwave it?
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 08:32:44 -0700
Organization: highland technology
Message-ID: <v9mhbj1a952iu67njdlcjnceidaai2dpbh@4ax.com>
References: <v8v0ke$t86d$1@solani.org> <v91r78$3pjer$3@dont-email.me> <v926bi$v1fh$1@solani.org> <v92r4h$3fk7$1@dont-email.me> <v94dhe$vdad$1@solani.org> <esecbj1vp6cf0v0778gt00kut08div9dsm@4ax.com> <v96vns$11dq7$1@solani.org> <3q4fbjls1l443iuh35lgfv86ennta3vk0i@4ax.com> <v99ifn$128lb$1@solani.org>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 156
X-Trace: sv3-wZfxLJ+EbLTemorssWfvK9RTZ8DS3rTrnWbldum8KCq5Bn8evvfhN5XThBpqHDJyyY+tkMn0PXEDa9c!1GxlcXNR8g/9Kr6lH4DSv0wZ5hPLWr+qaMRkbAs4RzQDnNoaXjKo00dlUzP0U4kXxAsw7lpoVy5L!Y1Odsg==
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Bytes: 8149

On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 05:33:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:35:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
><3q4fbjls1l443iuh35lgfv86ennta3vk0i@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 06:01:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Aug 2024 08:56:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
>>><esecbj1vp6cf0v0778gt00kut08div9dsm@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 09 Aug 2024 06:38:37 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 9 Aug 2024 02:18:17 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
>>>>><bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <v92r4h$3fk7$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 8/08/2024 8:23 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:36 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <v91r78$3pjer$3@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 7/08/2024 3:27 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Heating for fusion: Why toast plasma when you can microwave it!
>>>>>>>>>    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131216.htm
>>>>>>>>>     Carving a new path forward for compact fusion vessels
>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>    August 6, 2024
>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>>    DOE/Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory
>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>>    Can plasma be sufficiently heated inside a tokamak using only microwaves?
>>>>>>>>>    New research suggests it can! Eliminating the central ohmic heating coil
>>>>>>>>>    normally used in tokamaks will free up much-needed space for a more compact,
>>>>>>>>>    efficient spherical tokamak.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not so much carving a new path as looking for one. Maybe be gyrotrons
>>>>>>>> can heat the plasma enough, but planing to do experiment which can test
>>>>>>>> whether they can isn't exactly carving a new path - more just looking at
>>>>>>>> a possible new path.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bye bye ITER and that otehr fusion attempt mayonaise thing
>>>>>>>>>    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131357.htm
>>>>>>>>>     Researchers dig deeper into stability challenges of nuclear fusion -- with mayonnaise
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now all I am waiting for is a 10 year old kid doing a better than break even fusion experiment in its parents
>>>>>>>>> kitchen...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You may have to wait a long time. Mayonaise may exhibit Rayleigh-Taylor
>>>>>>>> instability, but the lessons it might be able to impart would be
>>>>>>>> difficult to translate into totomak design.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I like that Farnsworth fusor thing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course you do. You are too dim to notice that it can't generate 
>>>>>>enough energy to be a useful energy source - though it can be a handy 
>>>>>>source of neutrons if you need them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This spelled out if the link you posted, but clearly didn't read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They mention the grid gets too hot as a problem.
>>>>>>> Why not use a water filled pipe as grid,
>>>>>>> heat the water to steam, drive a small steam engine
>>>>>>> that drives a generator that drives a HV converter,
>>>>>>> simple electronics, there is a table top experiment.
>>>>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
>>>>>>>    so many simple ways to improve that setup!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But none are going to make it an energy source.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yea, and planes could never fly as those were heavier than air.
>>>>>There are solutions, some are simple.
>>>>>I have been posting about that Farnsworth fusor many times, but your amnesia must have gotten to you again.
>>>>>
>>>>>What will never produce energy is the large political job creation projects for albert onestone parrots like ITER is.
>>>>>Or that laser fusion crap in 'merrica.
>>>>
>>>>NIF is really about nuclear weapons, but the over-unity energy yield
>>>>is interesting.
>>>
>>>Yes, but theequipment ises a zillio times more energy that is produced...
>>>>>
>>>>>Same for anti-gravity.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is fun info too, previous thing you did not graps:
>>>>> Carvings at ancient monument may be world's oldest calendars
>>>>>  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131238.htm
>>>>>  comets causing glowball cooling?
>>>>>
>>>>>As to solder, when was the last time your front limbs held a sodering iron?
>>>>
>>>>Good question!
>>>
>>>Yea, had not touched it in several days myself .. was repairing a watch...
>>>need better tools, but it works again..
>>>We are in for some nice hot days here, 35 degrees C here predicted for Monday.
>>>95 F?
>>
>>
>>We're up in the mountains, in Truckee, and I'm not soldering here
>>either. It's hit 92F during the day but it's cold at night. Well, 92
>>above an asphalt road; it's cooler in the woods. It's dry so doesn't
>>feel very hot. We get occasional wafts of smoke, from the usual
>>California forest fires. We had a bear stroll down the street
>>yesterday.
>
>We now have more wolf problems, a place where close to where used to live and go a a kid
>has now had wolves attack little kids and kill many sheep.
>Still the idiot greenish politicians here want to keep protecting the wolves...
>No big fires here, air is clean..
>I am close to the beach actually, little islands close to here are a big holiday attaction.
>Ferries going there..
> https://www.dutchwaddenislands.com/ameland/inspiration
>
>
>>I have a new intern starting soon, and there's so much to teach him,
>>including soldering.
>
>Not much practical stuff teached in collage these days?
>What is his eduction background?
>
>>>
>>>As to that fusor, some old electron guns from color CRTs.. good focal point, 35 kV should be no problem
>>>need a good lab and mechanical man.
>>>Maybe some electron guns from old film scanner CRTs, those used even higher voltages.
>>>electrons; more basic and simpler than light.
>>>Farnsworth was a genius.
>>>
>>
>>Yes. He was a mostly unlearned farm boy who invented electronic
>>television near here, on Green Street.
>>
>>https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/cal0941.asp
>
>That is very nice
>
>
>>It's not hard to build a particle accelerator to get some fusion, but
>>it's not efficient.
>
>Yea, but something should be possible to increase on that 'fusor' setup.
>
>As it is all about tiny particles, whe should have a small portable fusion power plant
>say one for every car and every household.
>No more huge power lines, like we now have no more telegraph lines for data.
>
>It must be possible, we are overlooking something.
>Atoms are very small...
>

Fission works fine, even better if we'd recycle used fuel.

Natural gas is great too. We don't really have an energy problem.