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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: BOLO pervert cyclist
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 18:47:19 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 9/8/2024 6:19 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/8/2024 5:20 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 9/8/2024 11:25 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 9/7/2024 10:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 9/7/2024 11:12 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 22:47:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/7/2024 9:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 13:36:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/7/2024 11:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/7/2024 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Auto crash fatalities are a regrettable side 
>>>>>>>>>>> effect of the use
>>>>>>>>>>> of cars
>>>>>>>>>>> for transportation. And cars are so beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>>> transportation that
>>>>>>>>>>> American society would cease to function if cars 
>>>>>>>>>>> could not be used.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mass murders in schools are a regrettable side 
>>>>>>>>>>> effect of the
>>>>>>>>>>> worship
>>>>>>>>>>> of guns, especially AR-style rifles, the weapon 
>>>>>>>>>>> of choice for such
>>>>>>>>>>> murders. And I'll note that you have _still_ 
>>>>>>>>>>> never managed to
>>>>>>>>>>> state a
>>>>>>>>>>> practical societal benefit of ARs in public 
>>>>>>>>>>> possession.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike cars, if ARs could not be used, America 
>>>>>>>>>>> would be better
>>>>>>>>>>> off by
>>>>>>>>>>> far. Just the tax savings from not having to 
>>>>>>>>>>> "harden" public
>>>>>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>>>>>> would be worth the change.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or to summarize yet again: Benefits vs. 
>>>>>>>>>>> detriments, John! A concept
>>>>>>>>>>> that absolutely baffles you!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By that logic, are fatal car crashes by Ford 
>>>>>>>>>> Fiesta or Prius drivers
>>>>>>>>>> less tragic than those by scary black pickups?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We could certainly talk about advantages vs. 
>>>>>>>>> disadvantages of huge
>>>>>>>>> pickup trucks and other similar vehicles. Books 
>>>>>>>>> have been written on
>>>>>>>>> that topic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like
>>>>>>>> https://www.truckaddons.com/pros-and-cons-of-owning- 
>>>>>>>> a- pickup/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notice I provide a reference, you don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://slate.com/business/2022/02/suvs-pickups- 
>>>>>>> heavy- huge-deadly-
>>>>>>> dont-buy-em.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> https://reason.com/2024/02/02/why-are-pickup-trucks- 
>>>>>>> ridiculously-
>>>>>>> huge-blame-government/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "... critics aren't entirely wrong to point out the 
>>>>>>> ill effects of
>>>>>>> mega-truck proliferation—or the oddity of using a 
>>>>>>> 6,500- pound,
>>>>>>> 22-foot-long vehicle mainly as a grocery-getter. 
>>>>>>> Pedestrian deaths have
>>>>>>> reached 40-year highs and the Insurance Institute for 
>>>>>>> Highway Safety
>>>>>>> research shows that as trucks and SUVs have gotten 
>>>>>>> taller and heavier,
>>>>>>> they likewise have posed greater risks to those 
>>>>>>> outside the vehicle."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no problem with compact pickup trucks, just as 
>>>>>>> I have no problem
>>>>>>> with what were always considered normal and 
>>>>>>> legitimate hunting rifles.
>>>>>>> But bloated, oversized modern pickup trucks are a 
>>>>>>> close parallel to
>>>>>>> AR-style guns. They are bought mostly to raise the 
>>>>>>> owners' testosterone
>>>>>>> level, by providing capabilities that are essentially 
>>>>>>> never needed. And
>>>>>>> the detriments are externalities, imposed on others 
>>>>>>> who get none of the
>>>>>>> minuscule benefits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't say for the U.S. but here pickups are used, 
>>>>>> many times for
>>>>>> (probably) then they were intended to haul.
>>>>>> https://www.hotcars.com/thailand-largest-pickup-truck- 
>>>>>> market-in-the-
>>>>>> world/
>>>>>> And the article pretty well says that your two 
>>>>>> references just aren't
>>>>>> true... at least here.
>>>>>> https://duckduckgo.com/?
>>>>>> q=thailand+pickup+trucks&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.hotcarsimages.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F01%2Fpthai3.jpg&t=lm
>>>>>> The multitude of used of pickups here. There are even 
>>>>>> a few home made
>>>>>> pickups shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> America is different. See https://www.thedrive.com/ 
>>>>> news/26907/you-
>>>>> dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need- a-cowboy- 
>>>>> costume
>>>>>
>>>>> Among other points the author makes, "...a significant 
>>>>> portion of
>>>>> truck owners never use their trucks for these 
>>>>> capabilities. According
>>>>> to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their 
>>>>> truck for
>>>>> towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 
>>>>> 70 percent of
>>>>> truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a 
>>>>> full 35
>>>>> percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling— 
>>>>> putting something
>>>>> in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or 
>>>>> less."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Same argument applies to 95% of race bikes and probably 
>>>> half of all
>>>> upper end bicycles. They are mostly sitting in garages 
>>>> as we speak.
>>>
>>> Correct, of course, but even the most avid rider's bike 
>>> is probably
>>> sitting in his garage at any given moment.
>>>
>>> It would be more accurate to say that most race bikes are 
>>> never raced.
>>> Which should be a strong clue that a race bike is 
>>> probably far from the
>>> best choice for most bicyclists.
>>>
>>> But hey, they're fashionable!
>>>
>> I believe that’s been one of the trends for Endurance vs 
>> Race bikes ie just
>> because a racer be that Pro or Amateur can hold such a 
>> position doesn’t
>> mean mortals can!
>>
>> And likewise stuff like Gravel Bikes that can handle big 
>> road climbs or
>> follow MTB’s down trails and generally have wide performance
>> characteristics.
>>
>> This said I’d be surprised if high end bikes did sit in 
>> sheds unused, as in
>> my experience folks who bother to buy such bikes do tend 
>> to be into the
>> sport, ie not someone’s first adult bike which they buy 
>> but never use bar
>> perhaps a few weekends in summer.
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